4 ms·

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's

by lukev 14y ago

So this is something I've always wondered about diagnosing mental disorders. The thing is, how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality? In the comic book, these distinct personalities are what make the characters interesting. The same is also true of people in real life; if you take away every trait mentioned, you end up with a pretty bland person. So is it simply a matter of degree, and the "disorder" label just gets applied when the traits get strong enough for others to comment on? Or is there a qualitative difference?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
illuminate 14y ago
"how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality?" What's the difference? Why can't they be both at the same time?
j_baker 14y ago
Most mental disorders are pathological versions of normal behaviors. You can also have "traits" of certain personality disorders, which is normal. In fact, most people will have traits of one or more personality disorders. For example, a person like Steve Jobs who is a bit self-absorbed, but can focus on good things others do when need be might be said to have narcissistic traits. It's when you simply can't accept that anyone is better that it would be considered narcissistic personality disorder.
mey 14y ago
Through diagnostic tests (each disease has tests associated to standardize the results and make it more objective) and differential diagnosis. I don't have any names off the top of my head, but see something like the Apgar score to get an idea of what would go into evaluating a person's presented traits. For example depression has a series of question that identify a risk score and a threshold for treatment. Some further reading if you are interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP_note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP_note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score
Palomides 14y ago
it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a healthy lifestyle
- wisty 14y ago
  Arguably, it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a normal lifestyle. Normal lifestyles are rarely healthy. But you can't really say someone is abnormal unless it's causing them to lead an abnormally unhealthy lifestyle.
rprospero 14y ago
I think the qualitative difference is when the personality traits interfere with basic living. To put it differently, everyone is producing brain cells. Some people are producing more brain cells. However, when they're producing so many brain cells that the brain stops functioning properly, we start calling it a tumor. In the same way, everyone gets nervous and anxious from time to time. As a personality trait, I'm more high strung than most people. The fact that I don't like roller coasters and crowds due to that reason is just a personality trait. The fact that I once lost necessary medication because I was too nervous to speak with the cashier at the drug store made it a disorder.
tankbot 14y ago
> So is it simply a matter of degree, and the "disorder" label just gets applied when the traits get strong enough for others to comment on? Yes, it is the degree to which traits manifest, but it's not simply a matter of others commenting on them. Typically the degree to which these disorders manifest needs to interfere with living a normal, productive life. That can mean something different to different people, but it's safe to say that if your narcissistic rage prevents you from getting/keeping a job, that your case is likely a certifiable disorder. The trouble with personality disorders (which are pretty interesting, btw) is that if you ask 10 mental health professionals you will probably get at least 8 differing opinions (these numbers are fabricated on the spot, the point is that there is a lot of variation). Combined with the fact that personality disorders are largely untreatable the whole thing becomes a spaghetti mess. Studying personality disorders is really interesting and can offer a lot of insight into normal social interactions but I would caution people about second-year syndrome [0]. Keep in mind that, as someone else pointed out, these disorders are extreme cases of normal behavior. Don't get all freaked out when reading about mental disorders because you think you exhibit signs of schizophrenia, histrionic or narcissistic disorders. You do, we all do, it's normal - just not in the extremes that those with actual disorders exhibit. Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional, though I do work with them and their clients daily. I also minored in Psychology, which is valuable for a C.S. major when it comes to social interaction or marketing your skills/ideas internally. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students_disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students_disease
- j_baker 14y ago
  If anyone's interested in this enough to buy a book on it, I highly recommend Millon's Personality Disorders in Modern Life. It touches on a lot of the issues that the GP asked about including how to distinguish personality disorders from traits. http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Disorders-Modern-Theodore-Millon/dp/0471237345 http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Disorders-Modern-Theodore-...

by lukev 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

illuminate 14y ago

"how strongly do the traits listed have to be manifested before it's considered a disorder as opposed to just being that person's personality?" What's the difference? Why can't they be both at the same time?

j_baker 14y ago

Most mental disorders are pathological versions of normal behaviors. You can also have "traits" of certain personality disorders, which is normal. In fact, most people will have traits of one or more personality disorders. For example, a person like Steve Jobs who is a bit self-absorbed, but can focus on good things others do when need be might be said to have narcissistic traits. It's when you simply can't accept that anyone is better that it would be considered narcissistic personality disorder.

mey 14y ago

Through diagnostic tests (each disease has tests associated to standardize the results and make it more objective) and differential diagnosis. I don't have any names off the top of my head, but see something like the Apgar score to get an idea of what would go into evaluating a person's presented traits. For example depression has a series of question that identify a risk score and a threshold for treatment. Some further reading if you are interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_diagnosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP_note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOAP_note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score

Palomides 14y ago

it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a healthy lifestyle

wisty 14y ago
Arguably, it's a mental disorder when it's preventing a normal lifestyle. Normal lifestyles are rarely healthy. But you can't really say someone is abnormal unless it's causing them to lead an abnormally unhealthy lifestyle.

rprospero 14y ago

I think the qualitative difference is when the personality traits interfere with basic living. To put it differently, everyone is producing brain cells. Some people are producing more brain cells. However, when they're producing so many brain cells that the brain stops functioning properly, we start calling it a tumor. In the same way, everyone gets nervous and anxious from time to time. As a personality trait, I'm more high strung than most people. The fact that I don't like roller coasters and crowds due to that reason is just a personality trait. The fact that I once lost necessary medication because I was too nervous to speak with the cashier at the drug store made it a disorder.

tankbot 14y ago

> So is it simply a matter of degree, and the "disorder" label just gets applied when the traits get strong enough for others to comment on? Yes, it is the degree to which traits manifest, but it's not simply a matter of others commenting on them. Typically the degree to which these disorders manifest needs to interfere with living a normal, productive life. That can mean something different to different people, but it's safe to say that if your narcissistic rage prevents you from getting/keeping a job, that your case is likely a certifiable disorder. The trouble with personality disorders (which are pretty interesting, btw) is that if you ask 10 mental health professionals you will probably get at least 8 differing opinions (these numbers are fabricated on the spot, the point is that there is a lot of variation). Combined with the fact that personality disorders are largely untreatable the whole thing becomes a spaghetti mess. Studying personality disorders is really interesting and can offer a lot of insight into normal social interactions but I would caution people about second-year syndrome [0]. Keep in mind that, as someone else pointed out, these disorders are extreme cases of normal behavior. Don't get all freaked out when reading about mental disorders because you think you exhibit signs of schizophrenia, histrionic or narcissistic disorders. You do, we all do, it's normal - just not in the extremes that those with actual disorders exhibit. Disclaimer: I am not a mental health professional, though I do work with them and their clients daily. I also minored in Psychology, which is valuable for a C.S. major when it comes to social interaction or marketing your skills/ideas internally. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students_disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students_disease

j_baker 14y ago
If anyone's interested in this enough to buy a book on it, I highly recommend Millon's Personality Disorders in Modern Life. It touches on a lot of the issues that the GP asked about including how to distinguish personality disorders from traits. http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Disorders-Modern-Theodore-Millon/dp/0471237345 http://www.amazon.com/Personality-Disorders-Modern-Theodore-...