5 ms·

> I'm not sure that in the future private vehicles will be affordable as they are today. That’s a good thing, if you ask me.

darkwater 1y ago
Not in the way you think. We are going to keep the same, but older, ICE fleet running for many more years, unfortunately.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Yep this. The EU is one of the champions on regulatory self-owns/own-goals like these by pushing legislation that sounds good on the surface without too much though, but ends up having worse send and third order effects. Examples like: Giving preference to diesel vehicles because they produced less C02 than gasoline cars, while ignoring the much worse NOx and particulate for human respiratory heath that diesel engines produce(possible lobby from EU car brands involved). Denuclearization, because nuclear is scary and dangerous, that pushed energy prices up and use of coal which killed more people via respiratory issues than Chernobyl and Fukushima (possible lobby from Russian oil and gas involved) Banning ICE cars prematurely before the market, charging infrastructure and consumer demand can catch up on its own, will have similar negative effects.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Good only if public transport gets significantly more coverage end frequency, otherwise more working class people get financially wrecked. Not everyone lives in Amsterdam, Vienna, Berlin or London to not need a car.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Something for everyone to work on... Even if you love driving eventually you will get old and be unable to drive safely.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >Something for everyone to work on And who do you think is gonna work on that? Because politicians aren't gonna start building trains for you where you live, so you're left to fix your own situation by driving a car to work since your boss isn't gonna move his company where you live so you can walk/bike there. >Even if you love driving eventually you will get old and be unable to drive safely. Where do you see me saying anything about liking driving? I also don't like brushing my teeth but I still do it because it's a necessity just like driving is for a lot of people in smaller and highly spread out cities where frequent subways/trains are not a thing. Sure, we can all try to move to big cities with top public transport where you don't need a car, but those cities already have a housing shortage and it's only gonna get worse.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Politicians do what they think voters want them to do. Thus talk to your neighbors about this and point out that they could have good transit service (if you live in the US you might be the only neighborhood in your state, but you can point to other countries). Write letters to your politicians. Attend community meetings. Make sure you build bridges with conservatives - there are many conservatives pro transit messages but nobody knows them. Be careful about bridges with liberals who don't care about transit except as a way to do something else they want (since this results in bad transit which gives those who are against transit another "it can't work here" project to point to). None of the above is easy.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >Politicians do what they think voters want them to do. Thus talk to your neighbors about this and point out that they could have good transit service With what money? Because everyone wants things right now and my city is broke from mismanagement(corruption) and most companies here have had mass layoffs so money is going to welfare now. And history proves the west has started to suck at building rail infrastructure on time and on budget. By the time any rail would be built here, we'll have flying cars. Plus then you have nimbyis who don't want rail next to their homes. So then isn't it normal that people still prefer to keep their cars instead of waiting decades for fictional rail that might not happen? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
weweersdfsd 1y ago
Yes, what Western world really needs is more people moving to already unaffordable big cities, because they can't afford a commute from cheaper areas. Landlords would really love that.
- dvfjsdhgfv 1y ago
  If there only was a way that would allow people to live and work in a more affordable place, no matter where the company site actually is. Today it's still a matter of a power struggle between beehive-minded CEOs and employees, but if things get more tense, I believe a state intervention would be an excellent option.

darkwater 1y ago

Not in the way you think. We are going to keep the same, but older, ICE fleet running for many more years, unfortunately.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Yep this. The EU is one of the champions on regulatory self-owns/own-goals like these by pushing legislation that sounds good on the surface without too much though, but ends up having worse send and third order effects. Examples like: Giving preference to diesel vehicles because they produced less C02 than gasoline cars, while ignoring the much worse NOx and particulate for human respiratory heath that diesel engines produce(possible lobby from EU car brands involved). Denuclearization, because nuclear is scary and dangerous, that pushed energy prices up and use of coal which killed more people via respiratory issues than Chernobyl and Fukushima (possible lobby from Russian oil and gas involved) Banning ICE cars prematurely before the market, charging infrastructure and consumer demand can catch up on its own, will have similar negative effects.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

Good only if public transport gets significantly more coverage end frequency, otherwise more working class people get financially wrecked. Not everyone lives in Amsterdam, Vienna, Berlin or London to not need a car.

bluGill 1y ago
Something for everyone to work on... Even if you love driving eventually you will get old and be unable to drive safely.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >Something for everyone to work on And who do you think is gonna work on that? Because politicians aren't gonna start building trains for you where you live, so you're left to fix your own situation by driving a car to work since your boss isn't gonna move his company where you live so you can walk/bike there. >Even if you love driving eventually you will get old and be unable to drive safely. Where do you see me saying anything about liking driving? I also don't like brushing my teeth but I still do it because it's a necessity just like driving is for a lot of people in smaller and highly spread out cities where frequent subways/trains are not a thing. Sure, we can all try to move to big cities with top public transport where you don't need a car, but those cities already have a housing shortage and it's only gonna get worse.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Politicians do what they think voters want them to do. Thus talk to your neighbors about this and point out that they could have good transit service (if you live in the US you might be the only neighborhood in your state, but you can point to other countries). Write letters to your politicians. Attend community meetings. Make sure you build bridges with conservatives - there are many conservatives pro transit messages but nobody knows them. Be careful about bridges with liberals who don't care about transit except as a way to do something else they want (since this results in bad transit which gives those who are against transit another "it can't work here" project to point to). None of the above is easy.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >Politicians do what they think voters want them to do. Thus talk to your neighbors about this and point out that they could have good transit service With what money? Because everyone wants things right now and my city is broke from mismanagement(corruption) and most companies here have had mass layoffs so money is going to welfare now. And history proves the west has started to suck at building rail infrastructure on time and on budget. By the time any rail would be built here, we'll have flying cars. Plus then you have nimbyis who don't want rail next to their homes. So then isn't it normal that people still prefer to keep their cars instead of waiting decades for fictional rail that might not happen? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

weweersdfsd 1y ago

Yes, what Western world really needs is more people moving to already unaffordable big cities, because they can't afford a commute from cheaper areas. Landlords would really love that.

dvfjsdhgfv 1y ago
If there only was a way that would allow people to live and work in a more affordable place, no matter where the company site actually is. Today it's still a matter of a power struggle between beehive-minded CEOs and employees, but if things get more tense, I believe a state intervention would be an excellent option.