5 ms·

> Name for me one brand new feature. LTE

by evan_ 14y ago

morsch 14y ago
That's just an implementation detail of an improvement of an existing feature.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Then wireless charging and NFC could be counted as mere improvements (of existing features, i.e. cable charging and scanning barcodes) too!
  - camiller 14y ago
    Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication. You are comparing galaxies to apples ;) As an android (GS3) user I would have liked the iPhone to get NFC (and NFC based mobile payments) for the simple reason that the more phones capable of NFC payments the more merchants are likely to support it which benefits all of us (or at least all of us interested in paying for things with our phones). The same argument would hold true for wireless charging, but it would probably be unlikely for Apple to adopt the emerging "Qi" wireless charging standard and instead roll it's own.
    - evan_ 14y ago
      > Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication. OK, then NFC is just a slightly improved Wifi+Bonjour.
    - fleitz 14y ago
      You could use the front facing camera and display a barcode on the iPhone screen. Voila NFC. I know I'm going to take down votes for this, but for 90% of the population NFC is a solution in search of a problem. For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine. NFC isn't a 10X better payment solution. Most people have to carry something on them to carry cards, drivers licenses, etc in which they will place their payment card. Instead of fiddling with your wallet, now you're fiddling with your phone. NFC is as silly as using bump for payments.
      - camiller 14y ago
        Fair enough, but there are at least some point of sale systems that have NFC already, I have yet to see a system that is set up to display a barcode for the phone to read and then read a barcode on the phone (without moving the phone).
      - jarek 14y ago
        > For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine. Phones worked just fine for most people in 2006. Phones' screens were just fine in 2009... Paypass and Paywave are a considerable improvement over chip and PIN or singing a slip of paper. Faster, less fumbling. Necessary, no; an improvement, yes.
        fleitz 14y ago
        Ok... lets rehash... The iPhone was a 10X improvement over what was out there, if you upgraded your whole phone experience got better. Retina was a 4X improvement (4X as many pixels) after looking at retina the 3GS looked ugly, if you upgraded your entire phone experience got better. Now lets take a look at what happens if you get an NFC phone, you still have to take your wallet, and then you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC. 95% of the time you're going to be taking out your wallet. It's not a 10X improvement therefore adoption will be slow. And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash. I'm actually starting to go away from any payment system that isn't cash, because cash is universally accepted, even the Olympics takes cash. If NFC was on par with the aforementioned features it would be in the new phone.
        jarek 14y ago
        > you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC. Have you ever used Paypass? The readers are pretty conspicuous, large pad above the chip card reader, no need to ask just like you don't need to ask if someone takes cards when you see the reader. > And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash. Sure, and phones don't work when the cellular network is down, unlike shouting. But the last time I was unable to pay with a card because power or network were down was in 2010 and that's the only instance I can actually remember since, like, 2005. Let's not get into the parts where POSes will probably go down too if power goes out...
    - pooriaazimi 14y ago
      I think Apple is betting heavily on PassBook, which I think is superior to NFC, but would eventually fail if it's not an open standard (and even if it was open, Google and others would never use it because not using it would hurt Apple more). Maybe they should've integrated PassBook with NFC... I think their decision to go with PassBook will backfire (like Thunderbolt did - It's even more niche than Mac itself!) and they'll add NFC in iPhone 6 like they added USB3 support. That said, I'm not in a market that either of these technologies are likely to be used in the foreseeable future (5-10 years), so I personally don't care one way or another :) NFC/PassBook catching on just make me more jealous!
      - Steko 14y ago
        I don't think they are betting heavily against NFC or that passbook is superior to NFC. I think Apple sees more profit potential in leveraging Apple IDs for payment and they are cautiously hoping it will take off faster then NFC but won't hesitate to swap NFC chips in if that starts to see widespread adoption.
    - bduerst 14y ago
      Exactly. I was really looking forward to p2p payments over NFC phones.
- r00fus 14y ago
  That kind of thinking would have said that the WWW was just a slight improvement over gopher back in the 90's.
  - morsch 14y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. 3.5G to LTE is a simple improvement along a one-dimensional axis - bandwidth. Maybe two metrics, if you want to account for the latency improvement. There are no such straightforward metrics for comparing Gopher and WWW. So no, that kind of thinking does not arrive at WWW being a slight improvement over Gopher. That's not to say incremental improvements to existing features, such as LTE, can't be reason enough to sell a device (note that wasn't the question, though). As others have pointed out, though, Edge to 3G felt like a more significant step than 3G to LTE, though, just as 56k to 1 Mbit DSL felt like a more significant step than 1 MBit to 16 Mbit or 16 Mbit to 50 Mbit.

> Name for me one brand new feature. LTE

by evan_ 14y ago

> Name for me one brand new feature. LTE

morsch 14y ago

That's just an implementation detail of an improvement of an existing feature.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
Then wireless charging and NFC could be counted as mere improvements (of existing features, i.e. cable charging and scanning barcodes) too!
- camiller 14y ago
  Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication. You are comparing galaxies to apples ;) As an android (GS3) user I would have liked the iPhone to get NFC (and NFC based mobile payments) for the simple reason that the more phones capable of NFC payments the more merchants are likely to support it which benefits all of us (or at least all of us interested in paying for things with our phones). The same argument would hold true for wireless charging, but it would probably be unlikely for Apple to adopt the emerging "Qi" wireless charging standard and instead roll it's own.
  - evan_ 14y ago
    > Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication. OK, then NFC is just a slightly improved Wifi+Bonjour.
  - fleitz 14y ago
    You could use the front facing camera and display a barcode on the iPhone screen. Voila NFC. I know I'm going to take down votes for this, but for 90% of the population NFC is a solution in search of a problem. For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine. NFC isn't a 10X better payment solution. Most people have to carry something on them to carry cards, drivers licenses, etc in which they will place their payment card. Instead of fiddling with your wallet, now you're fiddling with your phone. NFC is as silly as using bump for payments.
    - camiller 14y ago
      Fair enough, but there are at least some point of sale systems that have NFC already, I have yet to see a system that is set up to display a barcode for the phone to read and then read a barcode on the phone (without moving the phone).
    - jarek 14y ago
      > For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine. Phones worked just fine for most people in 2006. Phones' screens were just fine in 2009... Paypass and Paywave are a considerable improvement over chip and PIN or singing a slip of paper. Faster, less fumbling. Necessary, no; an improvement, yes.
      - fleitz 14y ago
        Ok... lets rehash... The iPhone was a 10X improvement over what was out there, if you upgraded your whole phone experience got better. Retina was a 4X improvement (4X as many pixels) after looking at retina the 3GS looked ugly, if you upgraded your entire phone experience got better. Now lets take a look at what happens if you get an NFC phone, you still have to take your wallet, and then you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC. 95% of the time you're going to be taking out your wallet. It's not a 10X improvement therefore adoption will be slow. And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash. I'm actually starting to go away from any payment system that isn't cash, because cash is universally accepted, even the Olympics takes cash. If NFC was on par with the aforementioned features it would be in the new phone.
        jarek 14y ago
        > you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC. Have you ever used Paypass? The readers are pretty conspicuous, large pad above the chip card reader, no need to ask just like you don't need to ask if someone takes cards when you see the reader. > And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash. Sure, and phones don't work when the cellular network is down, unlike shouting. But the last time I was unable to pay with a card because power or network were down was in 2010 and that's the only instance I can actually remember since, like, 2005. Let's not get into the parts where POSes will probably go down too if power goes out...
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    I think Apple is betting heavily on PassBook, which I think is superior to NFC, but would eventually fail if it's not an open standard (and even if it was open, Google and others would never use it because not using it would hurt Apple more). Maybe they should've integrated PassBook with NFC... I think their decision to go with PassBook will backfire (like Thunderbolt did - It's even more niche than Mac itself!) and they'll add NFC in iPhone 6 like they added USB3 support. That said, I'm not in a market that either of these technologies are likely to be used in the foreseeable future (5-10 years), so I personally don't care one way or another :) NFC/PassBook catching on just make me more jealous!
    - Steko 14y ago
      I don't think they are betting heavily against NFC or that passbook is superior to NFC. I think Apple sees more profit potential in leveraging Apple IDs for payment and they are cautiously hoping it will take off faster then NFC but won't hesitate to swap NFC chips in if that starts to see widespread adoption.
  - bduerst 14y ago
    Exactly. I was really looking forward to p2p payments over NFC phones.
r00fus 14y ago
That kind of thinking would have said that the WWW was just a slight improvement over gopher back in the 90's.
- morsch 14y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. 3.5G to LTE is a simple improvement along a one-dimensional axis - bandwidth. Maybe two metrics, if you want to account for the latency improvement. There are no such straightforward metrics for comparing Gopher and WWW. So no, that kind of thinking does not arrive at WWW being a slight improvement over Gopher. That's not to say incremental improvements to existing features, such as LTE, can't be reason enough to sell a device (note that wasn't the question, though). As others have pointed out, though, Edge to 3G felt like a more significant step than 3G to LTE, though, just as 56k to 1 Mbit DSL felt like a more significant step than 1 MBit to 16 Mbit or 16 Mbit to 50 Mbit.