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Early MongoDB adapter here who still likes it. If your internal services are accessible from outside you are doing it wrong. Neither MongoDB nor ES or ollama ar

by TomK32 1y ago

Early MongoDB adapter here who still likes it. If your internal services are accessible from outside you are doing it wrong. Neither MongoDB nor ES or ollama are services that my applications would access through a public IP and whenever a dev asks me for access to the DB from the comfort of their home office I tell them what VPN to log into. Even if those services had some access protection, I simply must assume that the service has some security leak that allows unauthorized access and the first line of defense against that is not having it on the public internet.

cortesoft 1y ago
On the flipside, you can also argue that if you are relying on network access to protect your internal services, you are doing it wrong. If the only thing you need to take over a service is access to its internal network, you are setting yourself up to be owned.
- dns_snek 1y ago
  Yes but nobody is stopping you from adding your own proxy which enforces any type of authentication you like, and in my opinion that's the more sensible approach here anyway. I don't think it's sensible to expect every project like Ollama to ship their own half-broken authentication and especially anything resembling a "zero trust" implementation. You can easily front Ollama with a reverse proxy which does those things if you'd like. Each component should do one thing well. I trust Nginx to verify client certificates correctly so I can be confident that only traffic from trusted users is able to reach whatever insecure POS is hiding behind it.
harrall 1y ago
Tell that to the kids at my high school in 2004 screwing with all the unprotected services across the whole school district-wide network. Or the worms that scan for vulnerable services and install persistent threats. If you want to remove the password on a service, that’s your choice. The default should have a password though and then people can decide.
- dns_snek 1y ago
  Decide what? Slapping a simple, naive login screen on top of a service that was never designed to fend off attacks from untrusted networks doesn't fix the actual issue, which is the fact that an administrator exercised bad judgement and made it accessible to untrusted networks.
omneity 1y ago
You are assuming the only threats can come from outside. Defense in depth is essential in an age of unreliable software supply chain.

by TomK32 1y ago

cortesoft 1y ago

On the flipside, you can also argue that if you are relying on network access to protect your internal services, you are doing it wrong. If the only thing you need to take over a service is access to its internal network, you are setting yourself up to be owned.

dns_snek 1y ago
Yes but nobody is stopping you from adding your own proxy which enforces any type of authentication you like, and in my opinion that's the more sensible approach here anyway. I don't think it's sensible to expect every project like Ollama to ship their own half-broken authentication and especially anything resembling a "zero trust" implementation. You can easily front Ollama with a reverse proxy which does those things if you'd like. Each component should do one thing well. I trust Nginx to verify client certificates correctly so I can be confident that only traffic from trusted users is able to reach whatever insecure POS is hiding behind it.

harrall 1y ago

Tell that to the kids at my high school in 2004 screwing with all the unprotected services across the whole school district-wide network. Or the worms that scan for vulnerable services and install persistent threats. If you want to remove the password on a service, that’s your choice. The default should have a password though and then people can decide.

dns_snek 1y ago
Decide what? Slapping a simple, naive login screen on top of a service that was never designed to fend off attacks from untrusted networks doesn't fix the actual issue, which is the fact that an administrator exercised bad judgement and made it accessible to untrusted networks.

omneity 1y ago

You are assuming the only threats can come from outside. Defense in depth is essential in an age of unreliable software supply chain.