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Apple Officially Reveals The iPhone 5

107 points by salimmadjd 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
sardonicbryan 14y ago
"[A 3.5 inch screen instead of a 4 inch screen]is an example of one of those design decisions that you don’t usually notice until you see someone doing it wrong. It’s one of the things that makes Apple products Apple products." http://dcurt.is/3-point-5-inches http://dcurt.is/3-point-5-inches
- spicyj 14y ago
  To be fair, Dustin Curtis was mostly complaining about the width of the screen, which is unchanged in the iPhone 5.
  - cheald 14y ago
    Which is why he made the iPhone's circle both wider and taller than the S II's, I suppose?
- gecko 14y ago
  The new screen is the same width as the old; just taller. If you look at the images in that blog post, it's pretty clear that a taller screen would be fine. It's the wider screen that really suffers. So I think his points hold.
  - danieldk 14y ago
    ...because nobody uses their phone horizontally.
    - spicyj 14y ago
      It's uncommon to use a phone horizontally with one hand.
      - sukuriant 14y ago
        But many people use their phone horizontally with both hands. See: text messagers, IRC users, ssh session runnners, angry birds players
        spicyj 14y ago
        And I doubt that you'll have any trouble using the iPhone 5 with two hands.
        inafield 14y ago
        Hey look! It's a PS Vita without the backside touch interface or media card reader! ;-)
      - danieldk 14y ago
        While the iPhone 4 screen's aspect ratio is 1.5:1, but the iPhone itself is 115.2 mm x 58.66 mm (approx 1:2). So, the same reasoning should apply to two finger use horizontally.
      - maaku 14y ago
        Depends on the phone.
    - bluthru 14y ago
      With one hand? No.
    - notatoad 14y ago
      Pretty much, yeah. Unless they're watching a movie or playing a game, it is pretty rare for somebody to be holding their phone horizontally.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    No it doesn't. iPhone's new screen is 16:9, same as every Android phone. So a 4" iPhone screen would be exactly the same dimension as a 4" Android phone's screen. Also check this out. The Droid RAZR M is just slightly taller than iPhone 4S, and I guess on par with the new iPhone - even though it has a 4.3" screen! http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6242/DSC_8062_575px.jpg http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6242/DSC_8062_575px.jpg http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/iphone-5-compared-iphone-4s-white-640x480.jpg http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ipho...
    - richcollins 14y ago
      It's the absolute distance that your thumb has to travel that is important, not the aspect ratio. The question is whether your thumb can reach the opposing corner of the screen. Of course you could always say that the parts that aren't reachable will only be used for display, not controls. But I doubt that iOS 6 moves the navigation buttons to the bottom.
- JumpCrisscross 14y ago
  Width, which seems optimal, hasn't changed. On the last image one can see that the green semicircle extends beyond the touchable part of the screen to the edges of the phone, implying the potential for a greater tactile surface.
  - grogglesbegone 14y ago
    The fact that Curtis' ridiculous piece saw so much play is an indictment of the gullibility and desire to believe of too many. It has zero technical accuracy, nor does it even seem to consider the idea that people use their phones for many other things than typing while walking, one handed. Personally that is by far the least common way I use my device, and if every other use suffered for that one possible use I would declare it a terrible decision. The original iPhone had a 3.5" display because that was a huge display at the time. Some short-sighted simplicity of the API bound them to it. This new form factor ("fragmentation!") is in all senses a hack, though it brings them in line with the aspect ratio that competitors have been using for years. From the original link - "When you first see a phone with a 4-inch or larger screen"... Just to be clear those 4-inch or larger screen phones Dustin complained about all use a 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio. As one aside -- I noted during the Verge live coverage that they, time and time again, pointed out where Apple was introducing features that look like or operate like competitors. I have to imagine that has something to do with the Gruber/Arment tag team that tried to smear them for failing to always point out when people follow Apple.
  - cheald 14y ago
    Those circles aren't the same size, favoring the iPhone. It's not an honest comparison.
    - Steko 14y ago
      The Samsung circle reflects the fact that more of your hand is taken up in holding the increased witdth of the phone. If you actually try it you can see how it works easily.
      - 14y ago
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be rushing to flip-flop and explain why a 4" screen was the right decision all along.
  - aeontech 14y ago
    Not really. The width remains the same, so it's still usable with one hand. What's there to flip flop about?
  - sbuk 14y ago
    No more than Apple's detractors are quick to say things like "No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be..." :)
    - gcr 14y ago
      No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now say things like "No more than Apple's detractors are quick to say things like \"No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be...\" :)" :)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- bugmenot 14y ago
  There are now several comments in this thread suggesting that these 4" are "different" because of the new aspect ratio. That ratio is anything but new, it's the same 16:9 everyone nowadays uses and a 4" screen from other manufacturers would have a) the same shape as the new iPhone b) be just what that dcurt.is post was rambling on against.
- aeontech 14y ago
  Spot on. "For the first time ever we've increased the size of the display. By making the screen taller, but not wider, you can still comfortably use it with one hand." - Jony Ive (quote from engadget's liveblog at http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/)
- jkn 14y ago
  The author used a smaller radius for the Samsung phone... Is it a mistake or is the the picture on the right at a smaller scale?
  - cheald 14y ago
    Neither! Using Apple products makes your appendages larger, including your thumbs, obviously! :)
  - HeyImAlex 14y ago
    Using the ruler tool in photoshop and comparing the ratios, it looks like they're pretty close to the same scale, and, even though it doesn't effect the message of the picture much, the second area is definitely smaller...
    - Steko 14y ago
      It's likely because your hand has to traverse the entire back of it. Put a phone in your hand and see how far your thumb swipes. Now turn the phone 90 degrees (or use a 2nd larger phone) and see that you really do make a smaller circle.
  - snowwrestler 14y ago
    The size of your hand is fixed. With a wider object in your hand you cannot fold your thumb over as far.
- majormajor 14y ago
  I'd argue that the reason the iPhone succeeded as wildly as it did is because the one-handed-thumb-operation use case pales in comparison to everything else a big (for its time) touchscreen lets you do. My old T9 Symbian was fantastic for using one-handed with my thumb. I didn't have to look at the screen to type since the keypad had tactile feedback, and navigating up and down with the direction buttons to, say, delete a row from my grocery list while walking through the store was a breeze. I can type faster on a touch screen (especially when using two thumbs), but I can't do it blind nearly as well. Nowdays I hold my phone in one hand, and use the other hand's index finger to manipulate the screen. It's vastly better than a physical thumb keypad for watching media, browsing the web, or viewing any other kind of information (all of which benefits from a larger screen, which is why—epecially as a guy with large-enough hands to do one-handed operation in a pinch even on a bigger screen—I prefer 4.3" screens over the 3.5" of the iPhone). It's also vastly better than a physical keypad for most other forms of interaction. But one-handed thumb usage has always been my mode of last resort for a touch-screen phone. So I like trading against the usability of that mode in exchange for more visible surface area.
  - bookwormAT 14y ago
    "I'd argue that the reason the iPhone succeeded as wildly as it did is because the one-handed-thumb-operation use case pales in comparison to everything else a big (for its time) touchscreen lets you do." I agree with this statement. A larger display delivers a much better experience when reading text, watching videos, playing games or touching controls in apps. I agree that the "I can reach the corner with my thumb" feature is an advantage. But that advantage pales compared to the fact that a large display (4.3+) significantly improves almost every action that people use on smartphones today. IMHO the only reason Apple sticks with the sizes they use is because they built an operating system that is not designed for multiple screen sizes. [edit: strange comment fail: I actually wote that I disagree with a statement that I actually agree with ;). fixed this now I guess]
    - mdonahoe 14y ago
      You both seem to be in agreement.
- mtgx 14y ago
  Eagerly waiting for a new post from him saying how actually 4" is the perfect size.
- TallboyOne 14y ago
  He must have very tiny thumbs
- guelo 14y ago
  Which is why Apple had to sue Samsung so people are no longer allowed to buy that phone. They love users so much they didn't want to see them using a phone where you can't reach the other corner with your thumb.
tocomment 14y ago
What is the third microphone for?
- bluthru 14y ago
  Top is for noise cancellation, the back is for video.
- bulltale 14y ago
  Better noise cancellation and voice recognition.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- bugmenot 14y ago
  That's the one put in at the behest of the NSA and DHS. You are not supposed to know about that one. You can't turn it off. Physically blocking it is a violation of the Patriot act. The idea started with Onstar and will now be an FCC requirement on all US phones.
rm999 14y ago
I'm curious how the new screen shape will play out. And not just the issues with fragmentation of aspect ratio, but with usability. Currently the iphone screen is just big enough that I can hold it with one hand and reach all four corners with my thumb. That said, I trust Apple has tested the usability aspect of the phone and has a plan for the aspect ratio differences.
- awolf 14y ago
  I've been working with the new layout system Apple added in iOS6 (Auto Layout). You basically define a set of rules like: this sticks to this, this view's height is proportional to this view's height, etc. The SDK attempts to reconcile the rules you gave and lets you know if there are any ambiguities in a clear way. It's very well thought out- powerful yet easy to use. I don't think fragmentation will be a problem. I do think however that the extra width in Landscape will now require a completely different interface. Adding 88 extra screen pixels means that simply rotating and stretching the interface has crossed the line from "looks kinda weird" to "looks terrible".
  - andybak 14y ago
    Isn't that pretty much what other layout engines do? i.e. QT etc. What was the situation before? Absolute positioning via x/y? Really?
    - awolf 14y ago
      Absolute positioning, along with an "auto-resizing" mask for each view defining how it should react to change in the parent view's size. The old way was versatile actually. What it lacked was being able to relate views to anything aside from it's parent container.
- bulltale 14y ago
  Making the screen higher but not wider is a good choice here. Due to the bone and muscle structure in your hand, it is much easier to move your thumb a little higher and lower, then it is to move it more outward.
billnguyen 14y ago
iphone 5: Bigger iphone is bigger and fits bigger stuff.
tomkit 14y ago
In Steve's latest bio it seemed to suggest the next iPhone would have a revolutionary design. It seems to be pretty iterative to me.
- josefresco 14y ago
  I'm thinking they had problems (or it simply didn't make the cut) with the new design, and opted for a second-place, more conservative design. I have no proof to back this claim up, just my gut feeling on it.
- grecy 14y ago
  Let's face it, in this consumer world, where our needs and wants are defined by enormous marketing budgets, every new model simply has to be revolutionary. Even if they just put a new color on something, it has to be marketed as such to convince people they not only want it, but actually need it. When that new Ford F-150 comes out with 34% more power, it always amazes me that nobody says "what the hell were you doing last year that was so crap?".
ddon 14y ago
may be less than people expected, but still very impressive list of improvements: - 20% lighter than the previous model - a little larger display - A6 processor - camera with a better low-light performance - 802.11a/b/g/n 2.4GHz, dual channel 5GHz, just like in the Kindle Fire HD - 4G LTE networks support (around the world) - HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA (improvements to the existing 3G technology) and, looks like more news to come...
- nubela 14y ago
  iterative, my friend. apple has lost its touch on innovation, imho.
  - MiguelHudnandez 14y ago
    Iteration and innovation each have their places. Innovation works best when the existing alternatives are awful. I'm not sure why one would "innovate" against their successful formula. Individual features might be innovative, however. For example, the re-arrangement of photo processing tasks to produce better low-light photos. http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-2012-event-its-almost-here/#post-144960 http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-2012-event-its-a...
  - parrots 14y ago
    Yes, because every iPod they released was a revolution with tons of innovations compared to the previous year's, right?. Just like every Mac? Iteration is how Apple plays it, and they play it well.
    - untog 14y ago
      Although I agree with your broader point, the iPod actually seems like a terrible example to me. They did innovate a ton- the mini, the nano, thin nano, fat nano, square nano, chewing gum shuffle, square shuffle...
      - parrots 14y ago
andrewmunsell 14y ago
The whole iOS6 demo is a flashback to WWDC... Nothing new here for the iPhone 5 so far...
arrowgunz 14y ago
I was expecting a better camera. May be a 10MP. Very disappointed.
- rimantas 14y ago
  More megapixels don't make cameras better. And with small CCD they make them worse.
  - arrowgunz 14y ago
    When I say more, I meant more in an "Apple" way. Apple has always stood up to the expectations of its users in terms of the camera quality. When it comes to Apple, more mega pixels would definitely mean a better camera. They would never just increase the number of mega pixels and have a low quality camera. I would agree with what you've said otherwise.
    - runako 14y ago
      Faster image capture is better in an "Apple" way. The speed with which I can take pictures with my 4S makes it far superior for e.g. taking pictures of kids, who tend to not wait for your camera app to get ready. And yet, you will still miss shots because the camera was slow. 40% improvement here is a big deal.
  - sukuriant 14y ago
    This is exactly what I came on the threads worried about. They're using a smaller sensor, and they seem to have done something with the IR filter. I suppose that might improve low-light image quality; but I wonder what it's going to do to the photos when the camera is on. All in all, I want to see how this camera performs in various lighting conditions. I'm very curious.
  - bryanlarsen 14y ago
    Smaller sensors make them worse. Sure, they can mitigate that with better software and better optics, but sensor size is the best estimate of image quality. It's really disappointing to see that the 5 has a smaller sensor than the 4S.
isaacwaller 14y ago
No NFC, very disappointing. I guess mobile payments will be delayed another year?
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  Well, to be fair, I'm not exactly sure where I'd use NFC since no where around where I live has NFC terminals. It's only the transit system... Barcodes at least work at Starbucks and the Airport, among other places.
  - trimbo 14y ago
    Not sure where you live but this may help: http://www.mastercard.us/mobile/paypass-locator.html http://www.mastercard.us/mobile/paypass-locator.html
  - untog 14y ago
    I know this is a somewhat inaccurate comparison, but no-one (and by that I mean major brands, etc) had mobile apps until Apple made a phone that allowed them. If Apple made an NFC-enabled iPhone companies could see reason to jump on the bandwagon.
    - andrewmunsell 14y ago
      I'm sure it would, but it's not a huge loss IMO. It'll come eventually and I'll miss not being able to do things like the Nexus Q + NFC Android phone pairing, but oh well.
  - joenathan 14y ago
    Chicken meet egg.
  - tlrobinson 14y ago
    It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. If Apple were to include NFC in iPhone you can bet adoption would start taking off soon after.
- 14y ago
ubershmekel 14y ago
Screen resolution of 1136x640 Why on earth would they go 144x80 pixels shy of 720p, 1280x720? Hasn't the world suffered enough from transcoding? So the eye sees your perfect DPI, but the pixels are going to be imperfect because it's a random down-sample size that doesn't divide anything standard. I don't get it.
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  Devs would have a completely new resolution. This maintains compatibility without having a ton of black bars around the screen. And yes, I realize it letterboxes with older apps. But I don't want vertical black bars too.
  - mirsadm 14y ago
    They could have scaled it in one direction and keep the black bars only on one side. It is really silly not to use 1280x720.
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > They could have scaled it in one direction Yes, I'm sure "blurry as fuck" is what people look for in a backward compatibility feature. With 2:1 already dodgy, 9:8 scaling would have flown really well
    - andrewmunsell 14y ago
      So you want them to do the very thing you are complaining about with not having 720p? I don't know about you, but I use my phone for apps more than watching 720p video and I'd rather not have my email be blurry...
  - to3m 14y ago
    "Older apps" = "everything made up until about 45 minutes ago"?
    - andrewmunsell 14y ago
sophacles 14y ago
I don't get it. If I buy an old IPhone, or anything with a Micro-usb, I can just take my phone knowing I can charge it just about anywhere. But they put a new connector on it. Why not just put a micro-usb without adaptor on it? It seems that it would make a lot of sense for those of us who don't want pockets/bags full of cords and adaptors. Or just do both.
- spicyj 14y ago
  For one, Apple's new connector ("Lightning", but I'm not sold on the name) is reversible so is easier to insert correctly.
  - sophacles 14y ago
    That is fantastic. Seriously, USB is annoying that way. But now when I take a trip for a couple days, which my work has me doing regularly, and if I have an Iphone 5, I have to be sure to bring my adaptor kit, or pay a $30 adaptor tax. With micro usb, I pay a $1 forgetfulness tax, if that, because almost everywhere has a spare usb charger or cable lying around. I don't want to pay that much to not have to turn the cable over once.
    - danielweber 14y ago
      In nearly every single situation, the right orientation for a USB cable is with the USB symbol on top. There are exceptions, but this one rule let me get it right for all but 1 device I own.
      - andrewaylett 14y ago
        Unfortunately (and speaking as one who has never knowingly given Apple any money) not all USB devices get this right: I've got a card reader (made by Kingston) with the USB logo on the wrong side of the plug. It's really anoying.
      - brunnsbe 14y ago
        Yes, but it's still the connector most people put in correctly on the third try. ;-)
secalex 14y ago
I'm totally stoked about people regularly plugging phones into their PCIe (Thunderbolt) port. Hottest talk at BlackHat USA 2013 will be an iPhone 5 -> MacBook exploit using DMA.
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  They just call it Lightning. AFAIK, it still plugs into USB.
  - secalex 14y ago
    That doesn't seem clear from the coverage so far. Obviously it has to be USB in the box, but the name hints that there would be a Thunderbolt option at least.
    - andrewmunsell 14y ago
      I'd be surprised. There's nothing you would need 10 Gbps for on a phone. The flash memory wouldn't even keep up. Plus with cables costing $50, it'd be an expensive option to have a second kind of cable. It's probably just marketing lingo to make it seem like it's related to TB.
      - ubercore 14y ago
        Driving a display would be one of those times, though. I would love having a phone as the basic computing device, with a desktop and tablet shell.
bluekeybox 14y ago
When can you order one?
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  The 14th (Friday)
  - bluekeybox 14y ago
    Thanks.
brasmasus 14y ago
25% smaller...sensor area? so reduced ability to create a depth of field effect?
citricsquid 14y ago
Does anyone know when the iPhone 5 will be available to purchase, what's the normal time to market after the announcement? (I'm in the UK, if that changes how long I'll have to wait)
- spicyj 14y ago
  For the US, preorders start in two days, and it ships a week later. Looks like it ships to the UK on the 28th.
- joshfinnie 14y ago
  Pre-orders start this Friday (Sept 14th), and shipping starts Sept 21st. edit: US, Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore markets
silenteh 14y ago
What about the battery? Any news about it? I really do hope Apple improved it as well!
- andrewmunsell 14y ago
  Yes, there is a slight improvement in battery life.
barista 14y ago
I am still trying hard to find a reason to get excited about....
andrewmunsell 14y ago
Seriously? New iTunes in "October"? That's a weird thing to pull considering the new iPhone's out before then, new iPods, iOS 6, etc...
Steko 14y ago
Apple should just hire Will Ferrell and/or Danny McBride to do the keynotes. "We didn't just make a new dock connector, we went the extra mile and gave it a rad name. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Lightning. It's made with bits of real cheetah, so you know it's fast."
breckinloggins 14y ago
I know this is really silly, but every year I wish they would put an FM tuner in the iPhone, and every year they don't.
- mojowo11 14y ago
  I can just picture the anti-skeuomorphism crowd having a meltdown over Apple's "iRadio" app that they'd inevitably release. It would probably look like an old-timey stand-up radio.
- grecy 14y ago
  Which is amazing seeings they have one in the iPod Touch... how hard could it be?
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    You mean nano.
    - grecy 14y ago
      Huh. I just re-capped the event and you're right. It's in the nano but not the touch.
- mtgx 14y ago
  I've never even thought of this - the iPhone doesn't have an FM radio? That's pretty ridiculous. Pretty much everyone, at least outside US, wants that on their phones. But I guess some learned to live without it because iPhone.
  - andybak 14y ago
    I've got it on a SGS II and never use it. The reception is pretty variable. I'd rather suffer buffering than hiss and crackle.
  - cube13 14y ago
    What's odd is that they added it to the iPod Nano, but not the iPhone or touch.
rsanchez1 14y ago
The iPhone 5 is like HTML5: overpromise and underdeliver.
neya 14y ago
So basically, its an inferior Galaxy S3 with the same old design for twice the money. Well done Apple.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- crygin 14y ago
  If that's your perspective, what do you think it means when people choose to buy the iPhone instead of the Galaxy S3? It doesn't mean that the people who choose the iPhone are sheep, or don't understand what they want. It means that the iPhone has some kind of appeal that you don't understand. Rather than claiming that something is "basically" something else, I'd recommend taking the time to understand why it's actually different, then applying those lessons to the products you develop.
  - bluntly_said 14y ago
    To answer your question: I'd say it means the people choosing to buy the iPhone aren't doing it based on the merits of the device, but rather the ecosystem around it (A LARGE part of which is advertising, particularly advertising that makes the device a status symbol). I say this because he's right, from a technical perspective the iPhone is "basically" just another smartphone. The guts are the same, the form factor is essentially the same. Hell, at this point even the feature sets of iOs and Android are basically the same. So yes, there are reasons why people choose to buy an iPhone. But the only real "lesson" I see at this point is that brand names and advertising work...
    - parasubvert 14y ago
      Firstly, ecosystem is a bit more than advertising, dude. iTunes, iCloud, AirPlay, and the App Store are all real, tangible things, and much richer than their Android counterparts (my opinion). Secondly, you're looking at speeds & feeds, and not the design of the thing. It's the best designed phone in the market in terms of look, heft, hand feel, not even beginning to get into the UX of iOS. These are little things, but they matter to people, and they're not easily quantifiable on a data sheet.
jcfrei 14y ago
iPod touch loop button - seems like a design decision Steve Jobs would have never allowed. It seems like they are just trying to get into the camera market by attaching a wrist strap, yet they've sacrificed the purity of their design. I'm not gonna speculate on whether this is gonna increase the appeal of the ipod family, but to me it seems like bad design decision - from an aesthetic point of view.
smashing 14y ago
As an app developer I thank the Screen Resolution Overlords for making all my competitors look obsolete.
JimmaDaRustla 14y ago
"Apple just did what Microsoft couldn't - get people to buy a Windows phone." - Credit to commentor engadget.
jpxxx 14y ago
Pretty excellent design choices this time around. Substantially improved body, performance, performance, performance, as world-mode as world-mode gets, significant camera upgrades, total carrier coverage, total content market coverage, a best-of-breed cloud story, deep integration with currently happening social networks, a total revamp of all I/O (save for the undoubtedly still-shitty speakerphone), an expansion of valuable flagship features into new markets, and (sigh) body with half the chance of shattering. This will be targeted at mopping up any straggling iPhone 3x users in the wealthiest markets, re-upping the tens of millions of 4-adoptees, and offering a $200 ("free") phone in unsubsidized markets that finally has the same design language as the $800 flagship while running most of the same software features. It still looks, walks, and talks like the best for the most. Enjoy your new shipment of money hats, Apple.
enraged_camel 14y ago
I was hoping that the iPhone 5 would be as exciting as the iPhone 4. I was disappointed. Things I was hoping for: - Completely waterproof design: would allow taking photos/videos underwater, and prevent water damage in general. - NFC: I think a lot of people wanted to see this. I know not many places use NFC right now but Apple has always been a driving force of technology, not a follower. - Built-in projector: Would make it ridiculously easy to show your photos/videos to friends (just project them on a wall). Would also allow giving presentations on the go (important business use-case). - Solar panels: for emergency recharging. - Radio receiver: not only for listening to the radio, but also for developing integrations between the iphone and remote control devices that use radio frequency
- aaronbrethorst 14y ago
  Me too, and I was also hoping for a pony. I don't think anyone ever predicted there was any chance of a waterproof design, projector, solar panels, or a radio receiver. I get being disappointed that Apple doesn't include the features you want, but why hope for things that are almost certainly never going to happen?
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    My thinking is that a company that has $117 billion in cash reserves should be able to make a device that has seemingly impossible features, rather than simple incremental improvements.
    - aaronbrethorst 14y ago
      It's not just what you put into it, but what you keep out that makes it special. More features means more weight, potentially lower battery life, more cost, etc. etc.
- why-el 14y ago
  I was gonna write asking if you are sarcastic, but the solar panel thingy settled the case.
- 14y ago
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

107 points by salimmadjd 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

"[A 3.5 inch screen instead of a 4 inch screen]is an example of one of those design decisions that you don’t usually notice until you see someone doing it wrong. It’s one of the things that makes Apple products Apple products." http://dcurt.is/3-point-5-inches http://dcurt.is/3-point-5-inches

spicyj 14y ago
To be fair, Dustin Curtis was mostly complaining about the width of the screen, which is unchanged in the iPhone 5.
- cheald 14y ago
  Which is why he made the iPhone's circle both wider and taller than the S II's, I suppose?
gecko 14y ago
The new screen is the same width as the old; just taller. If you look at the images in that blog post, it's pretty clear that a taller screen would be fine. It's the wider screen that really suffers. So I think his points hold.
- danieldk 14y ago
  ...because nobody uses their phone horizontally.
  - spicyj 14y ago
    It's uncommon to use a phone horizontally with one hand.
    - sukuriant 14y ago
      But many people use their phone horizontally with both hands. See: text messagers, IRC users, ssh session runnners, angry birds players
      - spicyj 14y ago
        And I doubt that you'll have any trouble using the iPhone 5 with two hands.
        inafield 14y ago
        Hey look! It's a PS Vita without the backside touch interface or media card reader! ;-)
    - danieldk 14y ago
      While the iPhone 4 screen's aspect ratio is 1.5:1, but the iPhone itself is 115.2 mm x 58.66 mm (approx 1:2). So, the same reasoning should apply to two finger use horizontally.
    - maaku 14y ago
      Depends on the phone.
  - bluthru 14y ago
    With one hand? No.
  - notatoad 14y ago
    Pretty much, yeah. Unless they're watching a movie or playing a game, it is pretty rare for somebody to be holding their phone horizontally.
- mtgx 14y ago
  No it doesn't. iPhone's new screen is 16:9, same as every Android phone. So a 4" iPhone screen would be exactly the same dimension as a 4" Android phone's screen. Also check this out. The Droid RAZR M is just slightly taller than iPhone 4S, and I guess on par with the new iPhone - even though it has a 4.3" screen! http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6242/DSC_8062_575px.jpg http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6242/DSC_8062_575px.jpg http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/iphone-5-compared-iphone-4s-white-640x480.jpg http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ipho...
  - richcollins 14y ago
    It's the absolute distance that your thumb has to travel that is important, not the aspect ratio. The question is whether your thumb can reach the opposing corner of the screen. Of course you could always say that the parts that aren't reachable will only be used for display, not controls. But I doubt that iOS 6 moves the navigation buttons to the bottom.
JumpCrisscross 14y ago
Width, which seems optimal, hasn't changed. On the last image one can see that the green semicircle extends beyond the touchable part of the screen to the edges of the phone, implying the potential for a greater tactile surface.
- grogglesbegone 14y ago
  The fact that Curtis' ridiculous piece saw so much play is an indictment of the gullibility and desire to believe of too many. It has zero technical accuracy, nor does it even seem to consider the idea that people use their phones for many other things than typing while walking, one handed. Personally that is by far the least common way I use my device, and if every other use suffered for that one possible use I would declare it a terrible decision. The original iPhone had a 3.5" display because that was a huge display at the time. Some short-sighted simplicity of the API bound them to it. This new form factor ("fragmentation!") is in all senses a hack, though it brings them in line with the aspect ratio that competitors have been using for years. From the original link - "When you first see a phone with a 4-inch or larger screen"... Just to be clear those 4-inch or larger screen phones Dustin complained about all use a 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio. As one aside -- I noted during the Verge live coverage that they, time and time again, pointed out where Apple was introducing features that look like or operate like competitors. I have to imagine that has something to do with the Gruber/Arment tag team that tried to smear them for failing to always point out when people follow Apple.
- cheald 14y ago
  Those circles aren't the same size, favoring the iPhone. It's not an honest comparison.
  - Steko 14y ago
    The Samsung circle reflects the fact that more of your hand is taken up in holding the increased witdth of the phone. If you actually try it you can see how it works easily.
    - 14y ago
w1ntermute 14y ago
No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be rushing to flip-flop and explain why a 4" screen was the right decision all along.
- aeontech 14y ago
  Not really. The width remains the same, so it's still usable with one hand. What's there to flip flop about?
- sbuk 14y ago
  No more than Apple's detractors are quick to say things like "No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be..." :)
  - gcr 14y ago
    No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now say things like "No more than Apple's detractors are quick to say things like \"No doubt all the Apple fanboys will now be...\" :)" :)
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bugmenot 14y ago
There are now several comments in this thread suggesting that these 4" are "different" because of the new aspect ratio. That ratio is anything but new, it's the same 16:9 everyone nowadays uses and a 4" screen from other manufacturers would have a) the same shape as the new iPhone b) be just what that dcurt.is post was rambling on against.
aeontech 14y ago
Spot on. "For the first time ever we've increased the size of the display. By making the screen taller, but not wider, you can still comfortably use it with one hand." - Jony Ive (quote from engadget's liveblog at http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/)
jkn 14y ago
The author used a smaller radius for the Samsung phone... Is it a mistake or is the the picture on the right at a smaller scale?
- cheald 14y ago
  Neither! Using Apple products makes your appendages larger, including your thumbs, obviously! :)
- HeyImAlex 14y ago
  Using the ruler tool in photoshop and comparing the ratios, it looks like they're pretty close to the same scale, and, even though it doesn't effect the message of the picture much, the second area is definitely smaller...
  - Steko 14y ago
    It's likely because your hand has to traverse the entire back of it. Put a phone in your hand and see how far your thumb swipes. Now turn the phone 90 degrees (or use a 2nd larger phone) and see that you really do make a smaller circle.
- snowwrestler 14y ago
  The size of your hand is fixed. With a wider object in your hand you cannot fold your thumb over as far.
majormajor 14y ago
I'd argue that the reason the iPhone succeeded as wildly as it did is because the one-handed-thumb-operation use case pales in comparison to everything else a big (for its time) touchscreen lets you do. My old T9 Symbian was fantastic for using one-handed with my thumb. I didn't have to look at the screen to type since the keypad had tactile feedback, and navigating up and down with the direction buttons to, say, delete a row from my grocery list while walking through the store was a breeze. I can type faster on a touch screen (especially when using two thumbs), but I can't do it blind nearly as well. Nowdays I hold my phone in one hand, and use the other hand's index finger to manipulate the screen. It's vastly better than a physical thumb keypad for watching media, browsing the web, or viewing any other kind of information (all of which benefits from a larger screen, which is why—epecially as a guy with large-enough hands to do one-handed operation in a pinch even on a bigger screen—I prefer 4.3" screens over the 3.5" of the iPhone). It's also vastly better than a physical keypad for most other forms of interaction. But one-handed thumb usage has always been my mode of last resort for a touch-screen phone. So I like trading against the usability of that mode in exchange for more visible surface area.
- bookwormAT 14y ago
  "I'd argue that the reason the iPhone succeeded as wildly as it did is because the one-handed-thumb-operation use case pales in comparison to everything else a big (for its time) touchscreen lets you do." I agree with this statement. A larger display delivers a much better experience when reading text, watching videos, playing games or touching controls in apps. I agree that the "I can reach the corner with my thumb" feature is an advantage. But that advantage pales compared to the fact that a large display (4.3+) significantly improves almost every action that people use on smartphones today. IMHO the only reason Apple sticks with the sizes they use is because they built an operating system that is not designed for multiple screen sizes. [edit: strange comment fail: I actually wote that I disagree with a statement that I actually agree with ;). fixed this now I guess]
  - mdonahoe 14y ago
    You both seem to be in agreement.
mtgx 14y ago
Eagerly waiting for a new post from him saying how actually 4" is the perfect size.
TallboyOne 14y ago
He must have very tiny thumbs
guelo 14y ago
Which is why Apple had to sue Samsung so people are no longer allowed to buy that phone. They love users so much they didn't want to see them using a phone where you can't reach the other corner with your thumb.

tocomment 14y ago

What is the third microphone for?

bluthru 14y ago
Top is for noise cancellation, the back is for video.
bulltale 14y ago
Better noise cancellation and voice recognition.
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bugmenot 14y ago
That's the one put in at the behest of the NSA and DHS. You are not supposed to know about that one. You can't turn it off. Physically blocking it is a violation of the Patriot act. The idea started with Onstar and will now be an FCC requirement on all US phones.

rm999 14y ago

I'm curious how the new screen shape will play out. And not just the issues with fragmentation of aspect ratio, but with usability. Currently the iphone screen is just big enough that I can hold it with one hand and reach all four corners with my thumb. That said, I trust Apple has tested the usability aspect of the phone and has a plan for the aspect ratio differences.

awolf 14y ago
I've been working with the new layout system Apple added in iOS6 (Auto Layout). You basically define a set of rules like: this sticks to this, this view's height is proportional to this view's height, etc. The SDK attempts to reconcile the rules you gave and lets you know if there are any ambiguities in a clear way. It's very well thought out- powerful yet easy to use. I don't think fragmentation will be a problem. I do think however that the extra width in Landscape will now require a completely different interface. Adding 88 extra screen pixels means that simply rotating and stretching the interface has crossed the line from "looks kinda weird" to "looks terrible".
- andybak 14y ago
  Isn't that pretty much what other layout engines do? i.e. QT etc. What was the situation before? Absolute positioning via x/y? Really?
  - awolf 14y ago
    Absolute positioning, along with an "auto-resizing" mask for each view defining how it should react to change in the parent view's size. The old way was versatile actually. What it lacked was being able to relate views to anything aside from it's parent container.
bulltale 14y ago
Making the screen higher but not wider is a good choice here. Due to the bone and muscle structure in your hand, it is much easier to move your thumb a little higher and lower, then it is to move it more outward.

billnguyen 14y ago

iphone 5: Bigger iphone is bigger and fits bigger stuff.

tomkit 14y ago

In Steve's latest bio it seemed to suggest the next iPhone would have a revolutionary design. It seems to be pretty iterative to me.

josefresco 14y ago
I'm thinking they had problems (or it simply didn't make the cut) with the new design, and opted for a second-place, more conservative design. I have no proof to back this claim up, just my gut feeling on it.
grecy 14y ago
Let's face it, in this consumer world, where our needs and wants are defined by enormous marketing budgets, every new model simply has to be revolutionary. Even if they just put a new color on something, it has to be marketed as such to convince people they not only want it, but actually need it. When that new Ford F-150 comes out with 34% more power, it always amazes me that nobody says "what the hell were you doing last year that was so crap?".

ddon 14y ago

may be less than people expected, but still very impressive list of improvements: - 20% lighter than the previous model - a little larger display - A6 processor - camera with a better low-light performance - 802.11a/b/g/n 2.4GHz, dual channel 5GHz, just like in the Kindle Fire HD - 4G LTE networks support (around the world) - HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA (improvements to the existing 3G technology) and, looks like more news to come...

nubela 14y ago
iterative, my friend. apple has lost its touch on innovation, imho.
- MiguelHudnandez 14y ago
  Iteration and innovation each have their places. Innovation works best when the existing alternatives are awful. I'm not sure why one would "innovate" against their successful formula. Individual features might be innovative, however. For example, the re-arrangement of photo processing tasks to produce better low-light photos. http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-2012-event-its-almost-here/#post-144960 http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-2012-event-its-a...
- parrots 14y ago
  Yes, because every iPod they released was a revolution with tons of innovations compared to the previous year's, right?. Just like every Mac? Iteration is how Apple plays it, and they play it well.
  - untog 14y ago
    Although I agree with your broader point, the iPod actually seems like a terrible example to me. They did innovate a ton- the mini, the nano, thin nano, fat nano, square nano, chewing gum shuffle, square shuffle...
    - parrots 14y ago

andrewmunsell 14y ago

The whole iOS6 demo is a flashback to WWDC... Nothing new here for the iPhone 5 so far...

arrowgunz 14y ago

I was expecting a better camera. May be a 10MP. Very disappointed.

rimantas 14y ago
More megapixels don't make cameras better. And with small CCD they make them worse.
- arrowgunz 14y ago
  When I say more, I meant more in an "Apple" way. Apple has always stood up to the expectations of its users in terms of the camera quality. When it comes to Apple, more mega pixels would definitely mean a better camera. They would never just increase the number of mega pixels and have a low quality camera. I would agree with what you've said otherwise.
  - runako 14y ago
    Faster image capture is better in an "Apple" way. The speed with which I can take pictures with my 4S makes it far superior for e.g. taking pictures of kids, who tend to not wait for your camera app to get ready. And yet, you will still miss shots because the camera was slow. 40% improvement here is a big deal.
- sukuriant 14y ago
  This is exactly what I came on the threads worried about. They're using a smaller sensor, and they seem to have done something with the IR filter. I suppose that might improve low-light image quality; but I wonder what it's going to do to the photos when the camera is on. All in all, I want to see how this camera performs in various lighting conditions. I'm very curious.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  Smaller sensors make them worse. Sure, they can mitigate that with better software and better optics, but sensor size is the best estimate of image quality. It's really disappointing to see that the 5 has a smaller sensor than the 4S.

isaacwaller 14y ago

No NFC, very disappointing. I guess mobile payments will be delayed another year?

andrewmunsell 14y ago
Well, to be fair, I'm not exactly sure where I'd use NFC since no where around where I live has NFC terminals. It's only the transit system... Barcodes at least work at Starbucks and the Airport, among other places.
- trimbo 14y ago
  Not sure where you live but this may help: http://www.mastercard.us/mobile/paypass-locator.html http://www.mastercard.us/mobile/paypass-locator.html
- untog 14y ago
  I know this is a somewhat inaccurate comparison, but no-one (and by that I mean major brands, etc) had mobile apps until Apple made a phone that allowed them. If Apple made an NFC-enabled iPhone companies could see reason to jump on the bandwagon.
  - andrewmunsell 14y ago
    I'm sure it would, but it's not a huge loss IMO. It'll come eventually and I'll miss not being able to do things like the Nexus Q + NFC Android phone pairing, but oh well.
- joenathan 14y ago
  Chicken meet egg.
- tlrobinson 14y ago
  It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. If Apple were to include NFC in iPhone you can bet adoption would start taking off soon after.
14y ago

ubershmekel 14y ago

Screen resolution of 1136x640 Why on earth would they go 144x80 pixels shy of 720p, 1280x720? Hasn't the world suffered enough from transcoding? So the eye sees your perfect DPI, but the pixels are going to be imperfect because it's a random down-sample size that doesn't divide anything standard. I don't get it.

andrewmunsell 14y ago
Devs would have a completely new resolution. This maintains compatibility without having a ton of black bars around the screen. And yes, I realize it letterboxes with older apps. But I don't want vertical black bars too.
- mirsadm 14y ago
  They could have scaled it in one direction and keep the black bars only on one side. It is really silly not to use 1280x720.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > They could have scaled it in one direction Yes, I'm sure "blurry as fuck" is what people look for in a backward compatibility feature. With 2:1 already dodgy, 9:8 scaling would have flown really well
  - andrewmunsell 14y ago
    So you want them to do the very thing you are complaining about with not having 720p? I don't know about you, but I use my phone for apps more than watching 720p video and I'd rather not have my email be blurry...
- to3m 14y ago
  "Older apps" = "everything made up until about 45 minutes ago"?
  - andrewmunsell 14y ago

sophacles 14y ago

I don't get it. If I buy an old IPhone, or anything with a Micro-usb, I can just take my phone knowing I can charge it just about anywhere. But they put a new connector on it. Why not just put a micro-usb without adaptor on it? It seems that it would make a lot of sense for those of us who don't want pockets/bags full of cords and adaptors. Or just do both.

spicyj 14y ago
For one, Apple's new connector ("Lightning", but I'm not sold on the name) is reversible so is easier to insert correctly.
- sophacles 14y ago
  That is fantastic. Seriously, USB is annoying that way. But now when I take a trip for a couple days, which my work has me doing regularly, and if I have an Iphone 5, I have to be sure to bring my adaptor kit, or pay a $30 adaptor tax. With micro usb, I pay a $1 forgetfulness tax, if that, because almost everywhere has a spare usb charger or cable lying around. I don't want to pay that much to not have to turn the cable over once.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    In nearly every single situation, the right orientation for a USB cable is with the USB symbol on top. There are exceptions, but this one rule let me get it right for all but 1 device I own.
    - andrewaylett 14y ago
      Unfortunately (and speaking as one who has never knowingly given Apple any money) not all USB devices get this right: I've got a card reader (made by Kingston) with the USB logo on the wrong side of the plug. It's really anoying.
    - brunnsbe 14y ago
      Yes, but it's still the connector most people put in correctly on the third try. ;-)

secalex 14y ago

I'm totally stoked about people regularly plugging phones into their PCIe (Thunderbolt) port. Hottest talk at BlackHat USA 2013 will be an iPhone 5 -> MacBook exploit using DMA.

andrewmunsell 14y ago
They just call it Lightning. AFAIK, it still plugs into USB.
- secalex 14y ago
  That doesn't seem clear from the coverage so far. Obviously it has to be USB in the box, but the name hints that there would be a Thunderbolt option at least.
  - andrewmunsell 14y ago
    I'd be surprised. There's nothing you would need 10 Gbps for on a phone. The flash memory wouldn't even keep up. Plus with cables costing $50, it'd be an expensive option to have a second kind of cable. It's probably just marketing lingo to make it seem like it's related to TB.
    - ubercore 14y ago
      Driving a display would be one of those times, though. I would love having a phone as the basic computing device, with a desktop and tablet shell.

bluekeybox 14y ago

When can you order one?

andrewmunsell 14y ago
The 14th (Friday)
- bluekeybox 14y ago
  Thanks.

brasmasus 14y ago

25% smaller...sensor area? so reduced ability to create a depth of field effect?

citricsquid 14y ago

Does anyone know when the iPhone 5 will be available to purchase, what's the normal time to market after the announcement? (I'm in the UK, if that changes how long I'll have to wait)

spicyj 14y ago
For the US, preorders start in two days, and it ships a week later. Looks like it ships to the UK on the 28th.
joshfinnie 14y ago
Pre-orders start this Friday (Sept 14th), and shipping starts Sept 21st. edit: US, Canada, UK, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore markets

silenteh 14y ago

What about the battery? Any news about it? I really do hope Apple improved it as well!

andrewmunsell 14y ago
Yes, there is a slight improvement in battery life.

barista 14y ago

I am still trying hard to find a reason to get excited about....

andrewmunsell 14y ago

Seriously? New iTunes in "October"? That's a weird thing to pull considering the new iPhone's out before then, new iPods, iOS 6, etc...

Steko 14y ago

Apple should just hire Will Ferrell and/or Danny McBride to do the keynotes. "We didn't just make a new dock connector, we went the extra mile and gave it a rad name. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Lightning. It's made with bits of real cheetah, so you know it's fast."

breckinloggins 14y ago

I know this is really silly, but every year I wish they would put an FM tuner in the iPhone, and every year they don't.

mojowo11 14y ago
I can just picture the anti-skeuomorphism crowd having a meltdown over Apple's "iRadio" app that they'd inevitably release. It would probably look like an old-timey stand-up radio.
grecy 14y ago
Which is amazing seeings they have one in the iPod Touch... how hard could it be?
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  You mean nano.
  - grecy 14y ago
    Huh. I just re-capped the event and you're right. It's in the nano but not the touch.
mtgx 14y ago
I've never even thought of this - the iPhone doesn't have an FM radio? That's pretty ridiculous. Pretty much everyone, at least outside US, wants that on their phones. But I guess some learned to live without it because iPhone.
- andybak 14y ago
  I've got it on a SGS II and never use it. The reception is pretty variable. I'd rather suffer buffering than hiss and crackle.
- cube13 14y ago
  What's odd is that they added it to the iPod Nano, but not the iPhone or touch.

rsanchez1 14y ago

The iPhone 5 is like HTML5: overpromise and underdeliver.

neya 14y ago

So basically, its an inferior Galaxy S3 with the same old design for twice the money. Well done Apple.

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crygin 14y ago
If that's your perspective, what do you think it means when people choose to buy the iPhone instead of the Galaxy S3? It doesn't mean that the people who choose the iPhone are sheep, or don't understand what they want. It means that the iPhone has some kind of appeal that you don't understand. Rather than claiming that something is "basically" something else, I'd recommend taking the time to understand why it's actually different, then applying those lessons to the products you develop.
- bluntly_said 14y ago
  To answer your question: I'd say it means the people choosing to buy the iPhone aren't doing it based on the merits of the device, but rather the ecosystem around it (A LARGE part of which is advertising, particularly advertising that makes the device a status symbol). I say this because he's right, from a technical perspective the iPhone is "basically" just another smartphone. The guts are the same, the form factor is essentially the same. Hell, at this point even the feature sets of iOs and Android are basically the same. So yes, there are reasons why people choose to buy an iPhone. But the only real "lesson" I see at this point is that brand names and advertising work...
  - parasubvert 14y ago
    Firstly, ecosystem is a bit more than advertising, dude. iTunes, iCloud, AirPlay, and the App Store are all real, tangible things, and much richer than their Android counterparts (my opinion). Secondly, you're looking at speeds & feeds, and not the design of the thing. It's the best designed phone in the market in terms of look, heft, hand feel, not even beginning to get into the UX of iOS. These are little things, but they matter to people, and they're not easily quantifiable on a data sheet.

jcfrei 14y ago

iPod touch loop button - seems like a design decision Steve Jobs would have never allowed. It seems like they are just trying to get into the camera market by attaching a wrist strap, yet they've sacrificed the purity of their design. I'm not gonna speculate on whether this is gonna increase the appeal of the ipod family, but to me it seems like bad design decision - from an aesthetic point of view.

smashing 14y ago

As an app developer I thank the Screen Resolution Overlords for making all my competitors look obsolete.

JimmaDaRustla 14y ago

"Apple just did what Microsoft couldn't - get people to buy a Windows phone." - Credit to commentor engadget.

jpxxx 14y ago

Pretty excellent design choices this time around. Substantially improved body, performance, performance, performance, as world-mode as world-mode gets, significant camera upgrades, total carrier coverage, total content market coverage, a best-of-breed cloud story, deep integration with currently happening social networks, a total revamp of all I/O (save for the undoubtedly still-shitty speakerphone), an expansion of valuable flagship features into new markets, and (sigh) body with half the chance of shattering. This will be targeted at mopping up any straggling iPhone 3x users in the wealthiest markets, re-upping the tens of millions of 4-adoptees, and offering a $200 ("free") phone in unsubsidized markets that finally has the same design language as the $800 flagship while running most of the same software features. It still looks, walks, and talks like the best for the most. Enjoy your new shipment of money hats, Apple.

enraged_camel 14y ago

I was hoping that the iPhone 5 would be as exciting as the iPhone 4. I was disappointed. Things I was hoping for: - Completely waterproof design: would allow taking photos/videos underwater, and prevent water damage in general. - NFC: I think a lot of people wanted to see this. I know not many places use NFC right now but Apple has always been a driving force of technology, not a follower. - Built-in projector: Would make it ridiculously easy to show your photos/videos to friends (just project them on a wall). Would also allow giving presentations on the go (important business use-case). - Solar panels: for emergency recharging. - Radio receiver: not only for listening to the radio, but also for developing integrations between the iphone and remote control devices that use radio frequency

aaronbrethorst 14y ago
Me too, and I was also hoping for a pony. I don't think anyone ever predicted there was any chance of a waterproof design, projector, solar panels, or a radio receiver. I get being disappointed that Apple doesn't include the features you want, but why hope for things that are almost certainly never going to happen?
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  My thinking is that a company that has $117 billion in cash reserves should be able to make a device that has seemingly impossible features, rather than simple incremental improvements.
  - aaronbrethorst 14y ago
    It's not just what you put into it, but what you keep out that makes it special. More features means more weight, potentially lower battery life, more cost, etc. etc.
why-el 14y ago
I was gonna write asking if you are sarcastic, but the solar panel thingy settled the case.
14y ago

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