4 ms·

I think the thinking is something along the lines of adults can understand the consequences better. I actually am not certain I buy that, as adults rarely under

I think the thinking is something along the lines of adults can understand the consequences better. I actually am not certain I buy that, as adults rarely understand the consequences of their actions, broadly.

forgetfreeman 1y ago
I'd counter that an individual who routinely fails to understand the consequences of their actions is by definition not an adult. Pondering the full implications of this are left as an exercise.
- fluoridation 1y ago
  "Understanding the consequences of one's actions" has never been part of the definition of "adult". Generally speaking, a mammal reaches adulthood when it stops growing.
  - forgetfreeman 1y ago
    Your belief that comprehension of consequences isn't part of the definition of "adult" suggests you are young and presents a stark commentary. Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Additionally, casually tossing out the term "mammal", as though human behavior lends itself to comparison with the activities of groundhogs (etc) seems like a bit of a non sequitur.
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      Wikipedia: >An adult is an animal that has reached full growth. The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction. >In the human context, the term adult has meanings associated with social and legal concepts. In contrast to a non-adult or "minor", a legal adult is a person who has attained the age of majority and is therefore regarded as independent, self-sufficient, and responsible. They may also be regarded as "majors". The typical age of attaining adulthood for humans is 18 years, although definition may vary by country. Merriam-Webster: >(adjective) fully developed and mature >(noun) one that is adult; especially: a human being after an age (such as 21) specified by law Your definition of "adult" is one no one uses. >Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Even if I grant that that's true, why should I care? Past generations killed infants in fields to benefit crops, and captured survivors of battles to enslave them. Appeals to tradition are uncompelling.
      - forgetfreeman 1y ago
        Appeals to tradition are only uncompelling if the tradition in question is problematic. Otherwise you end up in a situation where provably successful strategies are jettisoned for no reason beyond their age.
        fluoridation 1y ago
        >Otherwise you end up in a situation where provably successful strategies are jettisoned for no reason beyond their age. "Otherwise"? Uh, no. Let's appeal to neither tradition nor to novelty. Let's instead judge things on their own merits. But that's totally irrelevant, because the definition of a word is a neutral fact; it's neither good nor bad, it just is. You just tried to appeal to tradition to bring legitimacy to your made-up nonsense. I insist: Even if it was true that past cultures defined "adult" the way you do (which I don't grant), that's not the modern meaning.
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      > Your belief that comprehension of consequences isn't part of the definition of "adult" suggests you are young and presents a stark commentary. I'm 60, and I've never, ever heard of such a definition. Not encoded in law. Not by societies (American middle-class 50s? Nope. Puerto Rican immigrants? Nope. Amish? Nope.). You made it up.
      - forgetfreeman 1y ago
        I certainly did not and at your age you should be embarrassed to get behind the notion that childish behavior was normalized in adults 40 years ago. That isn't even revisionist, it's an outright lie.
  - xethos 1y ago
    > definition of "adult" Were someone to attempt to pinpoint the exact moment you begin talking past each other, this is where I'd say to look. Legally, you're right; legally, we kind of need a hard line to for all kinds of things. Voting, driving, alcohol, cannabis, or tobacco purchase and consumption, the list goes on (even if not everything on the list uses the same line). Socially, we have no such constraints. We can make case-by-case judgements for ourselves, and disagree with each other. Most notably, we can describe someone as acting like an adult. We can recognize that behaving like an adult, with the responsibilities that go along with that, can be independent from age. Forgetting we have multiple definitions of "Adult" is reasonable. Nobody is perfect every minute of every day. Refusing to acknowledge it, even after it's pointed out, is bad form; further, it's against site guidelines asking us each to use reasonable interpretations of each others thoughts and comments.
    - fluoridation 1y ago
      I don't agree that forgetfreeman and I are talking past each other. >Legally, you're right Cool, but my response doesn't hinge on there being a legal definition of "adult". In fact, the definition I gave was biological, which besides the legal is the definition most people use in casual conversation. When would you say a dog is an adult? >Most notably, we can describe someone as acting like an adult. We can recognize that behaving like an adult, with the responsibilities that go along with that, can be independent from age. Sure. But notice that you had to say that acting like an adult is independent from age, and not being an adult is. You wouldn't say that someone who, say, gambled his home is not adult, except figuratively, would you? You wouldn't think he should be entrusted to a guardian and that he should be signed up for school with other children. Regardless of how irresponsible his behavior, he still is an adult in your eyes. >Refusing to acknowledge it, even after it's pointed out, is bad form What's been pointed out, exactly? forgetfreeman said something -- something stupid, in my opinion -- I countered it, and they doubled down on it. What, I should just capitulate to anyone who is being insistently stupid? >it's against site guidelines asking us each to use reasonable interpretations of each others thoughts and comments. So what's the "reasonable interpretation" for the comment? "An individual who routinely fails to understand the consequences of their actions is by definition not an adult." By all means, tell me what I missed.

forgetfreeman 1y ago

I'd counter that an individual who routinely fails to understand the consequences of their actions is by definition not an adult. Pondering the full implications of this are left as an exercise.

fluoridation 1y ago
"Understanding the consequences of one's actions" has never been part of the definition of "adult". Generally speaking, a mammal reaches adulthood when it stops growing.
- forgetfreeman 1y ago
  Your belief that comprehension of consequences isn't part of the definition of "adult" suggests you are young and presents a stark commentary. Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Additionally, casually tossing out the term "mammal", as though human behavior lends itself to comparison with the activities of groundhogs (etc) seems like a bit of a non sequitur.
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    Wikipedia: >An adult is an animal that has reached full growth. The biological definition of adult is an organism that has reached sexual maturity and thus capable of reproduction. >In the human context, the term adult has meanings associated with social and legal concepts. In contrast to a non-adult or "minor", a legal adult is a person who has attained the age of majority and is therefore regarded as independent, self-sufficient, and responsible. They may also be regarded as "majors". The typical age of attaining adulthood for humans is 18 years, although definition may vary by country. Merriam-Webster: >(adjective) fully developed and mature >(noun) one that is adult; especially: a human being after an age (such as 21) specified by law Your definition of "adult" is one no one uses. >Past generations considered this character the bedrock that adult behavior rested upon. Even if I grant that that's true, why should I care? Past generations killed infants in fields to benefit crops, and captured survivors of battles to enslave them. Appeals to tradition are uncompelling.
    - forgetfreeman 1y ago
      Appeals to tradition are only uncompelling if the tradition in question is problematic. Otherwise you end up in a situation where provably successful strategies are jettisoned for no reason beyond their age.
      - fluoridation 1y ago
        >Otherwise you end up in a situation where provably successful strategies are jettisoned for no reason beyond their age. "Otherwise"? Uh, no. Let's appeal to neither tradition nor to novelty. Let's instead judge things on their own merits. But that's totally irrelevant, because the definition of a word is a neutral fact; it's neither good nor bad, it just is. You just tried to appeal to tradition to bring legitimacy to your made-up nonsense. I insist: Even if it was true that past cultures defined "adult" the way you do (which I don't grant), that's not the modern meaning.
  - IAmBroom 1y ago
    > Your belief that comprehension of consequences isn't part of the definition of "adult" suggests you are young and presents a stark commentary. I'm 60, and I've never, ever heard of such a definition. Not encoded in law. Not by societies (American middle-class 50s? Nope. Puerto Rican immigrants? Nope. Amish? Nope.). You made it up.
    - forgetfreeman 1y ago
      I certainly did not and at your age you should be embarrassed to get behind the notion that childish behavior was normalized in adults 40 years ago. That isn't even revisionist, it's an outright lie.
- xethos 1y ago
  > definition of "adult" Were someone to attempt to pinpoint the exact moment you begin talking past each other, this is where I'd say to look. Legally, you're right; legally, we kind of need a hard line to for all kinds of things. Voting, driving, alcohol, cannabis, or tobacco purchase and consumption, the list goes on (even if not everything on the list uses the same line). Socially, we have no such constraints. We can make case-by-case judgements for ourselves, and disagree with each other. Most notably, we can describe someone as acting like an adult. We can recognize that behaving like an adult, with the responsibilities that go along with that, can be independent from age. Forgetting we have multiple definitions of "Adult" is reasonable. Nobody is perfect every minute of every day. Refusing to acknowledge it, even after it's pointed out, is bad form; further, it's against site guidelines asking us each to use reasonable interpretations of each others thoughts and comments.
  - fluoridation 1y ago
    I don't agree that forgetfreeman and I are talking past each other. >Legally, you're right Cool, but my response doesn't hinge on there being a legal definition of "adult". In fact, the definition I gave was biological, which besides the legal is the definition most people use in casual conversation. When would you say a dog is an adult? >Most notably, we can describe someone as acting like an adult. We can recognize that behaving like an adult, with the responsibilities that go along with that, can be independent from age. Sure. But notice that you had to say that acting like an adult is independent from age, and not being an adult is. You wouldn't say that someone who, say, gambled his home is not adult, except figuratively, would you? You wouldn't think he should be entrusted to a guardian and that he should be signed up for school with other children. Regardless of how irresponsible his behavior, he still is an adult in your eyes. >Refusing to acknowledge it, even after it's pointed out, is bad form What's been pointed out, exactly? forgetfreeman said something -- something stupid, in my opinion -- I countered it, and they doubled down on it. What, I should just capitulate to anyone who is being insistently stupid? >it's against site guidelines asking us each to use reasonable interpretations of each others thoughts and comments. So what's the "reasonable interpretation" for the comment? "An individual who routinely fails to understand the consequences of their actions is by definition not an adult." By all means, tell me what I missed.