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> "The down-votes DO NOT invalidate anything. Or perhaps Bill's bots / fans are in play here" "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bri

> "The down-votes DO NOT invalidate anything. Or perhaps Bill's bots / fans are in play here" "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You half remember one blunt interaction that you conveniently can't find and you're dedicating your life to shitting on him and his project. How is that on-topic here?

johnisgood 1y ago
If I find it and I post it, would that make it OK?
- johnisgood 1y ago
  I did, I posted it, and someone already commented to each one of the reviews and comments. :| I removed the link now.
jibal 1y ago
Many people have had similar experiences with GB ... he's famous for it.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  And here I thought this was a one time thing (someone said he may have had a bad day). :| Do you have any specifics?
  - jibal 1y ago
    First, I want to be clear that Ginger Bill has put in the work and stands behind his convictions. But convictions he does have, and being strongly and forcefully opinionated has consequences. Here's a summary from Gemini ... which really isn't objectionable at all. If you want specific examples of him getting into arguments with people or being dismissive, you'll have to dig for them yourself. "Ginger Bill" refers to Bill Hall, the creator of the Odin programming language, who is known for his outspoken and opinionated comments on programming and software development. His argumentative style can be seen in his blog posts and social media, particularly on X (formerly Twitter), where he often presents strong opinions on programming aesthetics, language design, and the open-source software movement. Examples of his argumentative style Software is not traditional property: In a blog post titled "Unstructured Thoughts on the Problems of OSS/FOSS," Hall argues that intellectual property, specifically software, is not "property" in the traditional sense because it is "trivially copyable". This is a provocative stance that challenges common views on intellectual property rights. Criticism of open-source ideals: In the same article, he asserts that the open-source software (OSS/FOSS) dream is just a "dream that cannot live up to its 'ideals'". He argues that many of the perceived benefits of OSS are merely hypotheses and that the movement is based on "blind-faith". Aesthetics in programming: Hall has made seemingly non-negotiable declarations about coding style. On X, he once posted, "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint". While humorous, it exemplifies his tendency to make definitive statements on subjects that are often matters of convention. Language semantics over syntax: He argues that the focus of language design should be on core semantics rather than "syntactic sugar". He believes that when the core semantics are good, the syntax will naturally follow and feel "joyful" to use. Arguments against common practices: Hall is also known for taking firm positions against widely used programming practices, such as his blog post "Exceptions—And Why Odin Will Never Have Them". Overall, his argumentative nature stems from a deep-seated philosophical position on software design and engineering, which he shares to provoke discussion and advocate for the principles he believes are best for the craft.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      I have read the post about exceptions: https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2018/09/05/exceptions-and-why-odin-will-never-have-them/ https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2018/09/05/exceptions-and.... I did not personally mind Odin's exceptions, to be honest. I prefer Odin's way, and Go's way, too. > you'll have to dig for them yourself. Yeah I was referring to such specifics, but I will take a look at Discord perhaps. > "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint" Those are just opinions. I prefer 2 spaces, or tab with 2 column width. I tend stick to one style in my codebase, consistently. I do not like anything longer than 2, because I have a small screen and I think it is just simply redundant. I can follow 2 column width indentation just fine. This is just my opinion. If I use tabs, people can choose their own, it is up to them.
    - krig 1y ago
      Dude, I find it utterly offensive that you and the other guy keep referring to all these interactions with Bill where he was a mean boy, and yet the closest to an actual quote or reference is some Gemini slop? If you're going to be that lazy, it would be easier to not post anything at all. https://anthonymoser.github.io/writing/ai/haterdom/2025/08/26/i-am-an-ai-hater.html https://anthonymoser.github.io/writing/ai/haterdom/2025/08/2...
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        So you feel offended on behalf of someone else? I found the comment(s): [REDACTED] > I am closing this PR because it would be quicker for me to write my own bindings than explain everything wrong with it and then hope they get fixed correctly. The funny thing is that we are talking about a vendor library, one that does actually work (I tested it as I needed curl in Odin)! Seems like the major issues were purely stylistic. BTW "Please try to keep the original naming conventions and DO NOT change it to Odin's core convention." and "Maybe remove the CURL prefix?" are contradictory. It is "CURLOPT" in curl.h. "OPT" seems out of place. I am not even sure what I would have named it were I to follow his advice. You?
        1y ago

johnisgood 1y ago

If I find it and I post it, would that make it OK?

johnisgood 1y ago
I did, I posted it, and someone already commented to each one of the reviews and comments. :| I removed the link now.

jibal 1y ago

Many people have had similar experiences with GB ... he's famous for it.

johnisgood 1y ago
And here I thought this was a one time thing (someone said he may have had a bad day). :| Do you have any specifics?
- jibal 1y ago
  First, I want to be clear that Ginger Bill has put in the work and stands behind his convictions. But convictions he does have, and being strongly and forcefully opinionated has consequences. Here's a summary from Gemini ... which really isn't objectionable at all. If you want specific examples of him getting into arguments with people or being dismissive, you'll have to dig for them yourself. "Ginger Bill" refers to Bill Hall, the creator of the Odin programming language, who is known for his outspoken and opinionated comments on programming and software development. His argumentative style can be seen in his blog posts and social media, particularly on X (formerly Twitter), where he often presents strong opinions on programming aesthetics, language design, and the open-source software movement. Examples of his argumentative style Software is not traditional property: In a blog post titled "Unstructured Thoughts on the Problems of OSS/FOSS," Hall argues that intellectual property, specifically software, is not "property" in the traditional sense because it is "trivially copyable". This is a provocative stance that challenges common views on intellectual property rights. Criticism of open-source ideals: In the same article, he asserts that the open-source software (OSS/FOSS) dream is just a "dream that cannot live up to its 'ideals'". He argues that many of the perceived benefits of OSS are merely hypotheses and that the movement is based on "blind-faith". Aesthetics in programming: Hall has made seemingly non-negotiable declarations about coding style. On X, he once posted, "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint". While humorous, it exemplifies his tendency to make definitive statements on subjects that are often matters of convention. Language semantics over syntax: He argues that the focus of language design should be on core semantics rather than "syntactic sugar". He believes that when the core semantics are good, the syntax will naturally follow and feel "joyful" to use. Arguments against common practices: Hall is also known for taking firm positions against widely used programming practices, such as his blog post "Exceptions—And Why Odin Will Never Have Them". Overall, his argumentative nature stems from a deep-seated philosophical position on software design and engineering, which he shares to provoke discussion and advocate for the principles he believes are best for the craft.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I have read the post about exceptions: https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2018/09/05/exceptions-and-why-odin-will-never-have-them/ https://www.gingerbill.org/article/2018/09/05/exceptions-and.... I did not personally mind Odin's exceptions, to be honest. I prefer Odin's way, and Go's way, too. > you'll have to dig for them yourself. Yeah I was referring to such specifics, but I will take a look at Discord perhaps. > "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint" Those are just opinions. I prefer 2 spaces, or tab with 2 column width. I tend stick to one style in my codebase, consistently. I do not like anything longer than 2, because I have a small screen and I think it is just simply redundant. I can follow 2 column width indentation just fine. This is just my opinion. If I use tabs, people can choose their own, it is up to them.
  - krig 1y ago
    Dude, I find it utterly offensive that you and the other guy keep referring to all these interactions with Bill where he was a mean boy, and yet the closest to an actual quote or reference is some Gemini slop? If you're going to be that lazy, it would be easier to not post anything at all. https://anthonymoser.github.io/writing/ai/haterdom/2025/08/26/i-am-an-ai-hater.html https://anthonymoser.github.io/writing/ai/haterdom/2025/08/2...
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      So you feel offended on behalf of someone else? I found the comment(s): [REDACTED] > I am closing this PR because it would be quicker for me to write my own bindings than explain everything wrong with it and then hope they get fixed correctly. The funny thing is that we are talking about a vendor library, one that does actually work (I tested it as I needed curl in Odin)! Seems like the major issues were purely stylistic. BTW "Please try to keep the original naming conventions and DO NOT change it to Odin's core convention." and "Maybe remove the CURL prefix?" are contradictory. It is "CURLOPT" in curl.h. "OPT" seems out of place. I am not even sure what I would have named it were I to follow his advice. You?
      - 1y ago