4 ms·

These depictions can probably be dismissed, just as any other depiction of Jesus. That painting has been made long after his death. The only clues to his likene

by danhau 1y ago

These depictions can probably be dismissed, just as any other depiction of Jesus. That painting has been made long after his death. The only clues to his likeness are deductions from biblical texts and historical context. For example, he most likely didn‘t have long hair (1. Corinthians 11), and he also wasn‘t European looking (should be obvious).

barry-cotter 1y ago
> he also wasn‘t European looking (should be obvious). Spaniards, Egyptians, Greeks and Levantines all look very similar and Jesus was definitely of the Levant. I hope you won’t deny Spaniards and Greeks are European.
- krapp 1y ago
  In this context, "European" means "white." Jesus probably did not look like the bearded white hippie commonly depicted in Western (primarily American and British) iconography. Spaniards, Egyptians, Greeks and Levantines may or may not look similar (seems a bit broad, like the geographical definition of "European") but they also don't often look like "white people." Especially not in Egypt or the Levant.
  - jibal 1y ago
    Weird which of these two comments was downvoted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus#Historical_appearance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus#H... > in terms of physical appearance, the average Judean of the time would have likely had brown or black hair, honey/olive-brown skin, and brown eyes This entire digression has been brought to you by someone who didn't understand an obvious pun.
  - watwut 1y ago
    As an European, I find the definition of European that excludes Spaniards super weird. Likewise, not counting Spaniards into white is weird too, but at least it does not betray complete lack of knowledge about what counts as Europe.
    - throw0101d 1y ago
      > Likewise, not counting Spaniards into white is weird too, but at least it does not betray complete lack of knowledge about what counts as Europe. Not that they should actually be listened to about anything, but the KKK (and others) did not consider Italian (immigrants) to be white. One of the reasons for Columbus Day was people of that background wanting to show their 'American-ness'.
    - krapp 1y ago
      >As an European, I find the definition of European that excludes Spaniards super weird. Because you are, as I suspect many people will, intentionally misreading the context of my comment. I am implying that the use of "European" herein does not literally refer to the geographic region known as "Europe," but rather that in the context of a statement about the likely physical appearance of Jesus it should be understood as a statement about race and ethnicity whereby "European" is a politically correct descriptor for the common set of physical traits often described as "white," as is represented in Western depictions of Jesus, particularly where traits like skin color, eye color and hair color are concerned.
      - watwut 1y ago
        1.) Look, Spaniards are Europeans by any reasonable definition. They are part of Western Europe. 2.) Traditional western depiction of Jesus looking like Spaniards would be no exception. Traditional western depiction of Jesus tend to look sorta kinda like locals do. 3.) Europeans do have wild range of eye colors and hair colors. The eye color and hair being some specific colors even for whites is weird, because even whitey whites have all kind of hair colors and eye colors. > "European" is a politically correct descriptor for the common set of physical traits often described as "white, No it is not and to the extend it is, it is absurd whistleblowing attempt - the one that ends up redefine Western Europe as a place that excludes Spaniards.
      - barry-cotter 1y ago
        99.99% of the population of the Mediterranean basin at the time Jesus lived were white, almost certainly more given that the trans-Saharan slave trade was a creature of the camel and post dated the Arab conquest of North Africa.
  - williamdclt 1y ago
    Never heard of spanish people or greeks not being considered "white".
    - krapp 1y ago
      Read an American history book.
    - noboostforyou 1y ago
      Just because you never heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. For example, Irish people were heavily discriminated against in the US and were considered at one point to not be "white" https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-stereotypes-of-the-irish/ https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-st... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment
      - barry-cotter 1y ago
        > Irish people […] were considered at one point to not be "white" This isn’t true. Naturalisation was limited to white people and no Irish person was ever denied it in account of their race.
    - xeonmc 1y ago
      It's euphemism for "Aryan".

by danhau 1y ago

barry-cotter 1y ago

> he also wasn‘t European looking (should be obvious). Spaniards, Egyptians, Greeks and Levantines all look very similar and Jesus was definitely of the Levant. I hope you won’t deny Spaniards and Greeks are European.

krapp 1y ago
In this context, "European" means "white." Jesus probably did not look like the bearded white hippie commonly depicted in Western (primarily American and British) iconography. Spaniards, Egyptians, Greeks and Levantines may or may not look similar (seems a bit broad, like the geographical definition of "European") but they also don't often look like "white people." Especially not in Egypt or the Levant.
- jibal 1y ago
  Weird which of these two comments was downvoted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus#Historical_appearance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus#H... > in terms of physical appearance, the average Judean of the time would have likely had brown or black hair, honey/olive-brown skin, and brown eyes This entire digression has been brought to you by someone who didn't understand an obvious pun.
- watwut 1y ago
  As an European, I find the definition of European that excludes Spaniards super weird. Likewise, not counting Spaniards into white is weird too, but at least it does not betray complete lack of knowledge about what counts as Europe.
  - throw0101d 1y ago
    > Likewise, not counting Spaniards into white is weird too, but at least it does not betray complete lack of knowledge about what counts as Europe. Not that they should actually be listened to about anything, but the KKK (and others) did not consider Italian (immigrants) to be white. One of the reasons for Columbus Day was people of that background wanting to show their 'American-ness'.
  - krapp 1y ago
    >As an European, I find the definition of European that excludes Spaniards super weird. Because you are, as I suspect many people will, intentionally misreading the context of my comment. I am implying that the use of "European" herein does not literally refer to the geographic region known as "Europe," but rather that in the context of a statement about the likely physical appearance of Jesus it should be understood as a statement about race and ethnicity whereby "European" is a politically correct descriptor for the common set of physical traits often described as "white," as is represented in Western depictions of Jesus, particularly where traits like skin color, eye color and hair color are concerned.
    - watwut 1y ago
      1.) Look, Spaniards are Europeans by any reasonable definition. They are part of Western Europe. 2.) Traditional western depiction of Jesus looking like Spaniards would be no exception. Traditional western depiction of Jesus tend to look sorta kinda like locals do. 3.) Europeans do have wild range of eye colors and hair colors. The eye color and hair being some specific colors even for whites is weird, because even whitey whites have all kind of hair colors and eye colors. > "European" is a politically correct descriptor for the common set of physical traits often described as "white, No it is not and to the extend it is, it is absurd whistleblowing attempt - the one that ends up redefine Western Europe as a place that excludes Spaniards.
    - barry-cotter 1y ago
      99.99% of the population of the Mediterranean basin at the time Jesus lived were white, almost certainly more given that the trans-Saharan slave trade was a creature of the camel and post dated the Arab conquest of North Africa.
- williamdclt 1y ago
  Never heard of spanish people or greeks not being considered "white".
  - krapp 1y ago
    Read an American history book.
  - noboostforyou 1y ago
    Just because you never heard it doesn't mean it didn't happen. For example, Irish people were heavily discriminated against in the US and were considered at one point to not be "white" https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-stereotypes-of-the-irish/ https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-st... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment
    - barry-cotter 1y ago
      > Irish people […] were considered at one point to not be "white" This isn’t true. Naturalisation was limited to white people and no Irish person was ever denied it in account of their race.
  - xeonmc 1y ago
    It's euphemism for "Aryan".