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> When I posted this to lobste.rs, gingerBill (creator of Odin) was kind enough to make a more direct translation of the C code into Odin. Glad he has helped y

> When I posted this to lobste.rs, gingerBill (creator of Odin) was kind enough to make a more direct translation of the C code into Odin. Glad he has helped you. Maybe he listened to me, maybe not, but last time (almost year ago?) I saw an interaction with him on GitHub, he was nothing short of an a**hole, and not in the sense of Linus or Theo. In fact, he was not educational, he was just like "Many problems. I could write this better, GTFO". I saw it on GitHub, so I am reluctant to submit a PR of any sort myself in before he tells me he can implement it better and rejects my PR with this reasoning as he did with someone else. Like yeah, of course you may be able to implement it better, whereas someone new to the language might not, even though I tried it (the rejected PR, which was supposed to end up in vendor/ not the core library, AFAIK) and it was fully functional (and without any leaks), and to my eyes it seemed fine as well, but maybe I do not know Odin enough. In fact, I probably do not know it as much as he does, but by his logic, everything should be implemented by him because he knows better. This experience (albeit not mine) was enough to put me off of Odin. The C3 lead developer, on the other hand, was extremely helpful here on HN and on GitHub as well. I have a feeling he has helped you because of the article and some fame along with it. :) So my comment reflects a negative publicity. I cannot find the GitHub link right now, but it is there as it cannot be deleted, AFAIK. Look around rejected PRs in / for vendor/, I think. I am not logged in to GitHub and I cannot do so at the moment. Just my second-hand experience. Feel free to down-vote but please leave a comment afterwards. Not everyone and everything is sunshine and butterflies. The down-votes DO NOT invalidate anything. Or perhaps Bill's bots / fans are in play here. ;) God forbid someone voices negative experiences with a person. Only positives are allowed! I forgot...

krig 1y ago
Sorry to hear that! I haven’t had any such experience, quite the opposite. But I’m also an old. If someone tells me my code is shit, 1) they are probably right, and 2) I don’t really care. I can probably look at their code and find flaws in it. In the end, Odin is Bills project and he decides what goes into it, I’m fine with that.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  From what I remember, it was supposed to land in vendor/ which is not the core standard library though. Additionally, it is one thing to say the code is shit, and another to say "too many things wrong, fuck off", all while the code did work properly! From what I recall the person said he will continue working on it anyway in his own git repository. I think he could have given pointers of these major flaws (I checked the code and I could not find anything either[1]), which could have not been too major if the code worked properly (there were test cases, it did actually work and there were no memory leaks either, FWIW). > In the end, Odin is Bills project and he decides what goes into it, I’m fine with that. Me too. I am just not going to contribute. No big deal. > I haven’t had any such experience, quite the opposite. Just to add some positive, too: I have had positive experiences with other contributors. In any case, I follow the programming language's developers before I contribute, as you may have noticed. [1] But then again, I do not know the language too well either. Those pointers would have helped me and many others.
  - krig 1y ago
    > Me too. I am just not going to contribute. No big deal. Makes sense! Plenty of other languages and projects out there.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      My question to you, however, is this: what would have you done if he were to tell you that he can write your code way better (without any pointers) and that concludes the conversation? Would you not have expected at least SOMETHING as to what is wrong with it? Of course ultimately what he says and does is his own business, but I am asking you. > Plenty of other languages and projects out there. You are right. I do like Odin though, as a language, so it is a pity.
      - krig 1y ago
        I don’t think he works for me. I am not paying him. To the contrary, if anything _I_ am in debt since I am using all this code that he put out there for free. I guess there are a few things I could do in that situation. Move on to something else, try to figure out why he didn’t like it on my own, fork the language if it’s big enough and important enough to me. But yeah, maybe he is busy? Maybe he thinks you are capable of working it out yourself? Not to be too harsh about it, but yeah, that’s just the way it is sometimes. Maybe he was having a bad day, that happens to people.
jodrellblank 1y ago
> "The down-votes DO NOT invalidate anything. Or perhaps Bill's bots / fans are in play here" "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You half remember one blunt interaction that you conveniently can't find and you're dedicating your life to shitting on him and his project. How is that on-topic here?
- johnisgood 1y ago
  If I find it and I post it, would that make it OK?
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I did, I posted it, and someone already commented to each one of the reviews and comments. :| I removed the link now.
- jibal 1y ago
  Many people have had similar experiences with GB ... he's famous for it.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    And here I thought this was a one time thing (someone said he may have had a bad day). :| Do you have any specifics?
    - jibal 1y ago
      First, I want to be clear that Ginger Bill has put in the work and stands behind his convictions. But convictions he does have, and being strongly and forcefully opinionated has consequences. Here's a summary from Gemini ... which really isn't objectionable at all. If you want specific examples of him getting into arguments with people or being dismissive, you'll have to dig for them yourself. "Ginger Bill" refers to Bill Hall, the creator of the Odin programming language, who is known for his outspoken and opinionated comments on programming and software development. His argumentative style can be seen in his blog posts and social media, particularly on X (formerly Twitter), where he often presents strong opinions on programming aesthetics, language design, and the open-source software movement. Examples of his argumentative style Software is not traditional property: In a blog post titled "Unstructured Thoughts on the Problems of OSS/FOSS," Hall argues that intellectual property, specifically software, is not "property" in the traditional sense because it is "trivially copyable". This is a provocative stance that challenges common views on intellectual property rights. Criticism of open-source ideals: In the same article, he asserts that the open-source software (OSS/FOSS) dream is just a "dream that cannot live up to its 'ideals'". He argues that many of the perceived benefits of OSS are merely hypotheses and that the movement is based on "blind-faith". Aesthetics in programming: Hall has made seemingly non-negotiable declarations about coding style. On X, he once posted, "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint". While humorous, it exemplifies his tendency to make definitive statements on subjects that are often matters of convention. Language semantics over syntax: He argues that the focus of language design should be on core semantics rather than "syntactic sugar". He believes that when the core semantics are good, the syntax will naturally follow and feel "joyful" to use. Arguments against common practices: Hall is also known for taking firm positions against widely used programming practices, such as his blog post "Exceptions—And Why Odin Will Never Have Them". Overall, his argumentative nature stems from a deep-seated philosophical position on software design and engineering, which he shares to provoke discussion and advocate for the principles he believes are best for the craft.

krig 1y ago

Sorry to hear that! I haven’t had any such experience, quite the opposite. But I’m also an old. If someone tells me my code is shit, 1) they are probably right, and 2) I don’t really care. I can probably look at their code and find flaws in it. In the end, Odin is Bills project and he decides what goes into it, I’m fine with that.

johnisgood 1y ago
From what I remember, it was supposed to land in vendor/ which is not the core standard library though. Additionally, it is one thing to say the code is shit, and another to say "too many things wrong, fuck off", all while the code did work properly! From what I recall the person said he will continue working on it anyway in his own git repository. I think he could have given pointers of these major flaws (I checked the code and I could not find anything either[1]), which could have not been too major if the code worked properly (there were test cases, it did actually work and there were no memory leaks either, FWIW). > In the end, Odin is Bills project and he decides what goes into it, I’m fine with that. Me too. I am just not going to contribute. No big deal. > I haven’t had any such experience, quite the opposite. Just to add some positive, too: I have had positive experiences with other contributors. In any case, I follow the programming language's developers before I contribute, as you may have noticed. [1] But then again, I do not know the language too well either. Those pointers would have helped me and many others.
- krig 1y ago
  > Me too. I am just not going to contribute. No big deal. Makes sense! Plenty of other languages and projects out there.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    My question to you, however, is this: what would have you done if he were to tell you that he can write your code way better (without any pointers) and that concludes the conversation? Would you not have expected at least SOMETHING as to what is wrong with it? Of course ultimately what he says and does is his own business, but I am asking you. > Plenty of other languages and projects out there. You are right. I do like Odin though, as a language, so it is a pity.
    - krig 1y ago
      I don’t think he works for me. I am not paying him. To the contrary, if anything _I_ am in debt since I am using all this code that he put out there for free. I guess there are a few things I could do in that situation. Move on to something else, try to figure out why he didn’t like it on my own, fork the language if it’s big enough and important enough to me. But yeah, maybe he is busy? Maybe he thinks you are capable of working it out yourself? Not to be too harsh about it, but yeah, that’s just the way it is sometimes. Maybe he was having a bad day, that happens to people.

jodrellblank 1y ago

> "The down-votes DO NOT invalidate anything. Or perhaps Bill's bots / fans are in play here" "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You half remember one blunt interaction that you conveniently can't find and you're dedicating your life to shitting on him and his project. How is that on-topic here?

johnisgood 1y ago
If I find it and I post it, would that make it OK?
- johnisgood 1y ago
  I did, I posted it, and someone already commented to each one of the reviews and comments. :| I removed the link now.
jibal 1y ago
Many people have had similar experiences with GB ... he's famous for it.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  And here I thought this was a one time thing (someone said he may have had a bad day). :| Do you have any specifics?
  - jibal 1y ago
    First, I want to be clear that Ginger Bill has put in the work and stands behind his convictions. But convictions he does have, and being strongly and forcefully opinionated has consequences. Here's a summary from Gemini ... which really isn't objectionable at all. If you want specific examples of him getting into arguments with people or being dismissive, you'll have to dig for them yourself. "Ginger Bill" refers to Bill Hall, the creator of the Odin programming language, who is known for his outspoken and opinionated comments on programming and software development. His argumentative style can be seen in his blog posts and social media, particularly on X (formerly Twitter), where he often presents strong opinions on programming aesthetics, language design, and the open-source software movement. Examples of his argumentative style Software is not traditional property: In a blog post titled "Unstructured Thoughts on the Problems of OSS/FOSS," Hall argues that intellectual property, specifically software, is not "property" in the traditional sense because it is "trivially copyable". This is a provocative stance that challenges common views on intellectual property rights. Criticism of open-source ideals: In the same article, he asserts that the open-source software (OSS/FOSS) dream is just a "dream that cannot live up to its 'ideals'". He argues that many of the perceived benefits of OSS are merely hypotheses and that the movement is based on "blind-faith". Aesthetics in programming: Hall has made seemingly non-negotiable declarations about coding style. On X, he once posted, "Code indentation that is anything but 2, 3, 4, or 8 characters wide, is objectively a bad style from a pure aesthetics standpoint". While humorous, it exemplifies his tendency to make definitive statements on subjects that are often matters of convention. Language semantics over syntax: He argues that the focus of language design should be on core semantics rather than "syntactic sugar". He believes that when the core semantics are good, the syntax will naturally follow and feel "joyful" to use. Arguments against common practices: Hall is also known for taking firm positions against widely used programming practices, such as his blog post "Exceptions—And Why Odin Will Never Have Them". Overall, his argumentative nature stems from a deep-seated philosophical position on software design and engineering, which he shares to provoke discussion and advocate for the principles he believes are best for the craft.