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I’m sorry, you think Python helped us invent LLMs and without it we wouldn’t have? Are you serious right now? You do realise the Python libraries which work in

I’m sorry, you think Python helped us invent LLMs and without it we wouldn’t have? Are you serious right now? You do realise the Python libraries which work in this space are written in C, right? Java wasn’t just too verbose, it had bad IDEs and build systems. If you want to go back, might I suggest Kotlin or C#?

throwmeaway222 1y ago
I was referring to the language that a lot of math heads and NLP folk were married to because of specific shortcuts. If those same people had targetted C to do their high-level matrix math and other work, the pace would have been too slow. They needed the high level frameworks such as tensorflow or Pytorch to get us where we're at.
Pet_Ant 1y ago
In my books… I love Maven. I cannot think of another tool of that age that has afed as gracefully. Java IDEs are really among the best but I imagine C# in Visual Studio or Smalltalk might really be better. That these are someone’s problems with Java… is pretty wild. But we all have our own experiences.
soganess 1y ago
I hate Python more than anyone I know. My nightmares are filled with people repeatedly chanting "programming is done by consenting adults." Hearing someone say "Pythonic" as a synonym for clever/good, or having someone explain their latest "genius" GIL workaround... boils me. So it gives me no pleasure to say this, but one would have to be a complete fool to believe Python wasn't absolutely instrumental in the AI revolution. I'd go as far as to say Python is the reason data science is not just more software engineering. NumPy/Pandas/SciPy/TF/Torch/etc core could be written in $SPACE_ALIEN_WAY_BETTER_3000 for all it matters. If they were not built for Python ingestion, they wouldn't have been used by most of the world. There is some special sauce in Python that clicks with people. Something in the looseness and metaphorical play between the joints, I think. Pretending otherwise is that willful ignorance some software folks have when their toy is no longer the shiniest. (Also, sure Maven sucked, but saying Java had bad IDEs? IntelliJ or death! Or, you know, death until something better comes along)
- moi2388 1y ago
  Had, not has. Eclipse was horrible imo. The libraries you mentioned are written in c. Id go so far that everything bad about the current state of AI, including its lack of security features is exactly because Python “developers” wrote it. To each their own I guess..
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throwmeaway222 1y ago

I was referring to the language that a lot of math heads and NLP folk were married to because of specific shortcuts. If those same people had targetted C to do their high-level matrix math and other work, the pace would have been too slow. They needed the high level frameworks such as tensorflow or Pytorch to get us where we're at.

Pet_Ant 1y ago

In my books… I love Maven. I cannot think of another tool of that age that has afed as gracefully. Java IDEs are really among the best but I imagine C# in Visual Studio or Smalltalk might really be better. That these are someone’s problems with Java… is pretty wild. But we all have our own experiences.

soganess 1y ago

I hate Python more than anyone I know. My nightmares are filled with people repeatedly chanting "programming is done by consenting adults." Hearing someone say "Pythonic" as a synonym for clever/good, or having someone explain their latest "genius" GIL workaround... boils me. So it gives me no pleasure to say this, but one would have to be a complete fool to believe Python wasn't absolutely instrumental in the AI revolution. I'd go as far as to say Python is the reason data science is not just more software engineering. NumPy/Pandas/SciPy/TF/Torch/etc core could be written in $SPACE_ALIEN_WAY_BETTER_3000 for all it matters. If they were not built for Python ingestion, they wouldn't have been used by most of the world. There is some special sauce in Python that clicks with people. Something in the looseness and metaphorical play between the joints, I think. Pretending otherwise is that willful ignorance some software folks have when their toy is no longer the shiniest. (Also, sure Maven sucked, but saying Java had bad IDEs? IntelliJ or death! Or, you know, death until something better comes along)

moi2388 1y ago
Had, not has. Eclipse was horrible imo. The libraries you mentioned are written in c. Id go so far that everything bad about the current state of AI, including its lack of security features is exactly because Python “developers” wrote it. To each their own I guess..
- deleted 1y ago
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