3 ms·

Just doesn't seem very democratic, very American, very value based to go around blowing up people rather than, say, letting the coast guard do their job (interd

Just doesn't seem very democratic, very American, very value based to go around blowing up people rather than, say, letting the coast guard do their job (interdict or track then arrest), which they do very well. Also it's gruesome as fuck & deeply below us for the Secretary of State / National Security Advisor / Archivist of the USA to be posting snuff flicks. It's highly disturbing that Americans would be tuning in to extrajudicial murder by the government, that the administration is sending a message that just killing whomever you want to is fine, not just fine, but evening entertainment & something to cheer about. (So long as your president makes a national emergency declaration to declare whomever you want enemy combatants first. See: Designating Cartels And Other Organizations As Foreign Terrorist Organizations And Specially Designated Global Terrorists https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/designating-cartels-and-other-organizations-as-foreign-terrorist-organizations-and-specially-designated-global-terrorists/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/desi... ). This is all a particularly low point, that removes a lot of basic stops in America & cuts the standard for the rest of the world a whole lot for just killing whomever is in power feels like killing. Have some fucking morals & respect. There's no practical limits here, this is all made up. Way way way down the priority list, this is also absurdly ghastly expensive, and wasting our military doing more pointless shit instead of actually preparing for useful defense of the nation.

pintxo 1y ago
To be fair, the US governments of the last 25 years have all been contributing to the current state of affairs in terms of eroding the rule of (international) law.
- TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
  Which is all the more reason to speak out against it vociferously and absolutely, rather than caveat it with “even though our government has been doing this for the past quarter century”. Let’s not aid in the barbarism.
rayiner 1y ago
Killing foreign actors who threaten harm inside the country is both highly moral,[1] and a core function of government. The U.S. federal government was blowing up threatening foreigners at sea long before it was providing social security or healthcare.[2] As to the Coast Guard, simply stopping the boats obviously isn’t working, because the power of the cartels has continued to grow. [1] https://youtu.be/hXlZTdAN-Hc?si=jPOP11QXAlUlYVxk https://youtu.be/hXlZTdAN-Hc?si=jPOP11QXAlUlYVxk [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  The principle of proportionality comes to mind. Added to the fact that this admin has no respect for due process or providing a modicrum of info or evidence for anything else domestically let alone anything that occurs in foreign lands or waters. Is the penalty for trafficking cocaine in the US death by the way? How about the names of these dead people? I vaguely recall Obama era drone strikes providing names of the targets at least. A bit amusing that you reference the Barbary wars, where an "anti-Christian" (aka anti-organized religion) president Jefferson had the decency to go with John Adams to meet with the ambassad of Tripoli in order to understand what the fuck kind of justification they had for kidnapping American ships and sailors. The ambassador succinctly informed them that it was their right as "it is written in the Koran." [0] Contrast this with an evangelist boosted admin with a serial adulterer Secretary of Defense (or is he now officially called the Secretary of War?) drunkenly shouting "Kill all Muslims" in a bar [1] or adrenaline tweeting the latest wacko shit from his weird ass pastor. [0] https://www.city-journal.org/article/jefferson-versus-the-muslim-pirates https://www.city-journal.org/article/jefferson-versus-the-mu... [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/pete-hegseths-secret-history https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/pete-hegseths-secre...
  - rayiner 1y ago
    > The principle of proportionality comes to mind. Added to the fact that this admin has no respect for due process or providing a modicrum of info or evidence for anything else domestically let alone anything that occurs in foreign lands or waters. Is the penalty for trafficking cocaine in the US death by the way? You’re mixing up concepts from two completely different legal domains. It doesn’t matter what the domestic criminal penalty is for drug trafficking, or what due process requires for imposing such a penalty, because those are domestic law concepts that simply do not apply to foreigners in international waters. In general, non-state combatants are entitled to very few rights under the law of war compared to actual soldiers. https://www.clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/an-uncivil-war-general-george-g-meade-the-pennsylvania-reserves-in-northern-virginia-october-9-to-december-6-1861/ https://www.clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/an-uncivil-war-g... (“In relation to the ‘bushwhacker’ Dr. Lieber concluded airily that ‘the importance of writing on this subject is much diminished by the fact that the soldier generally decides these cases for himself. The most disciplined soldiers will execute on the spot an armed and murderous prowler found where he could have no business as a peaceful citizen.’”).
onetimeusename 1y ago
The US used to post videos of ISIS being blown up for propaganda purposes since ISIS loved to release their own snuff flicks. The cartels also love video propaganda. Venezuela is an actual enemy of the US, it just hasn't sunk in. They have now had two elected presidents that Maduro refused to allow into power. Maduro's administration is working with the cartels. He himself has profited from drug cartels. At this point it's being dishonest to mischaracterize Venezuelan cartels as simply just low level criminals when they are working with the occupied Venezuelan government. Therefore this falls into operations presidents have the power to do. Was it democratic when the US bombed ISIS? I don't know what you mean by democratic. Should there be a vote before every bombing? Should a (un-elected, mind you) judge sign off on targeted strikes before they happen?
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  Not acting like ISIS or the Taliban is something I wish I saw more of from the US government. The way we portray and carry ourselves, how we treat others should reflect a higher standard. But antagonism, griefing, and courseness, the infinite low grievance machine, all while increasingly repressing our own people, invading our own lands, forcing our moral doctrine atop th natural liberty of our citizens all seem to be the sad low age we are in.
  - onetimeusename 1y ago
    I would probably agree and I don't even know what our moral doctrine is anymore. Not only is it unclear during some presidency, but it changes dramatically between presidencies. However right or wrong, my two points are slightly orthogonal. 1) That Venezuela looks like it's just about an active enemy at this point and Maduro and his admin are closely tied to a couple cartels. (Also side note, Venezuela still has not claimed those 11 were innocents but denied anything happened and said the video was AI generated which kind of confirms to me those were cartels). So now the war on terror has expanded once more to the drug industry. Shucks, looks like another never ending war this guy promised to end. 2) That in the modern video sharing era, propaganda is key and if they use videos to recruit I guess we use videos to dissuade now. I guess that means snuff vids made by the USA are probably going to be a thing now. Sure, we lose decorum but I guess it has a logic to it although I would not want to be the person responsible for our propaganda PR campaigns.
matheusmoreira 1y ago
Nah, Trump is literally doing god's work here. In fact I'm cheering for him. Latin America is almost completely dominated by violent drug trafficking borderline terrorist organized crime gangs. Over 26% of my country's territory is directly ruled by these gangs. They have infiltrated and corrupted every part of society. It's become impossible to so much as pump gas into our cars without contributing to their finances and continued success. My country is a narcostate pretending to be a democracy and I have no doubt many if not all of my neighbours are just as bad if not worse. Trump should refuse to even recognize the legitimacy of these nations. Especially that of "democracies" ruled by drug cartel-backed communist dictators such as Venezuela. Blow up a fucking boat? You really should see what these people do to each other and to the people subjected to their rule on a daily basis. Trump was actually quite humane.

pintxo 1y ago

To be fair, the US governments of the last 25 years have all been contributing to the current state of affairs in terms of eroding the rule of (international) law.

TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
Which is all the more reason to speak out against it vociferously and absolutely, rather than caveat it with “even though our government has been doing this for the past quarter century”. Let’s not aid in the barbarism.

rayiner 1y ago

Killing foreign actors who threaten harm inside the country is both highly moral,[1] and a core function of government. The U.S. federal government was blowing up threatening foreigners at sea long before it was providing social security or healthcare.[2] As to the Coast Guard, simply stopping the boats obviously isn’t working, because the power of the cartels has continued to grow. [1] https://youtu.be/hXlZTdAN-Hc?si=jPOP11QXAlUlYVxk https://youtu.be/hXlZTdAN-Hc?si=jPOP11QXAlUlYVxk [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

sillyfluke 1y ago
The principle of proportionality comes to mind. Added to the fact that this admin has no respect for due process or providing a modicrum of info or evidence for anything else domestically let alone anything that occurs in foreign lands or waters. Is the penalty for trafficking cocaine in the US death by the way? How about the names of these dead people? I vaguely recall Obama era drone strikes providing names of the targets at least. A bit amusing that you reference the Barbary wars, where an "anti-Christian" (aka anti-organized religion) president Jefferson had the decency to go with John Adams to meet with the ambassad of Tripoli in order to understand what the fuck kind of justification they had for kidnapping American ships and sailors. The ambassador succinctly informed them that it was their right as "it is written in the Koran." [0] Contrast this with an evangelist boosted admin with a serial adulterer Secretary of Defense (or is he now officially called the Secretary of War?) drunkenly shouting "Kill all Muslims" in a bar [1] or adrenaline tweeting the latest wacko shit from his weird ass pastor. [0] https://www.city-journal.org/article/jefferson-versus-the-muslim-pirates https://www.city-journal.org/article/jefferson-versus-the-mu... [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/pete-hegseths-secret-history https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/pete-hegseths-secre...
- rayiner 1y ago
  > The principle of proportionality comes to mind. Added to the fact that this admin has no respect for due process or providing a modicrum of info or evidence for anything else domestically let alone anything that occurs in foreign lands or waters. Is the penalty for trafficking cocaine in the US death by the way? You’re mixing up concepts from two completely different legal domains. It doesn’t matter what the domestic criminal penalty is for drug trafficking, or what due process requires for imposing such a penalty, because those are domestic law concepts that simply do not apply to foreigners in international waters. In general, non-state combatants are entitled to very few rights under the law of war compared to actual soldiers. https://www.clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/an-uncivil-war-general-george-g-meade-the-pennsylvania-reserves-in-northern-virginia-october-9-to-december-6-1861/ https://www.clevelandcivilwarroundtable.com/an-uncivil-war-g... (“In relation to the ‘bushwhacker’ Dr. Lieber concluded airily that ‘the importance of writing on this subject is much diminished by the fact that the soldier generally decides these cases for himself. The most disciplined soldiers will execute on the spot an armed and murderous prowler found where he could have no business as a peaceful citizen.’”).

onetimeusename 1y ago

The US used to post videos of ISIS being blown up for propaganda purposes since ISIS loved to release their own snuff flicks. The cartels also love video propaganda. Venezuela is an actual enemy of the US, it just hasn't sunk in. They have now had two elected presidents that Maduro refused to allow into power. Maduro's administration is working with the cartels. He himself has profited from drug cartels. At this point it's being dishonest to mischaracterize Venezuelan cartels as simply just low level criminals when they are working with the occupied Venezuelan government. Therefore this falls into operations presidents have the power to do. Was it democratic when the US bombed ISIS? I don't know what you mean by democratic. Should there be a vote before every bombing? Should a (un-elected, mind you) judge sign off on targeted strikes before they happen?

jauntywundrkind 1y ago
Not acting like ISIS or the Taliban is something I wish I saw more of from the US government. The way we portray and carry ourselves, how we treat others should reflect a higher standard. But antagonism, griefing, and courseness, the infinite low grievance machine, all while increasingly repressing our own people, invading our own lands, forcing our moral doctrine atop th natural liberty of our citizens all seem to be the sad low age we are in.
- onetimeusename 1y ago
  I would probably agree and I don't even know what our moral doctrine is anymore. Not only is it unclear during some presidency, but it changes dramatically between presidencies. However right or wrong, my two points are slightly orthogonal. 1) That Venezuela looks like it's just about an active enemy at this point and Maduro and his admin are closely tied to a couple cartels. (Also side note, Venezuela still has not claimed those 11 were innocents but denied anything happened and said the video was AI generated which kind of confirms to me those were cartels). So now the war on terror has expanded once more to the drug industry. Shucks, looks like another never ending war this guy promised to end. 2) That in the modern video sharing era, propaganda is key and if they use videos to recruit I guess we use videos to dissuade now. I guess that means snuff vids made by the USA are probably going to be a thing now. Sure, we lose decorum but I guess it has a logic to it although I would not want to be the person responsible for our propaganda PR campaigns.

matheusmoreira 1y ago

Nah, Trump is literally doing god's work here. In fact I'm cheering for him. Latin America is almost completely dominated by violent drug trafficking borderline terrorist organized crime gangs. Over 26% of my country's territory is directly ruled by these gangs. They have infiltrated and corrupted every part of society. It's become impossible to so much as pump gas into our cars without contributing to their finances and continued success. My country is a narcostate pretending to be a democracy and I have no doubt many if not all of my neighbours are just as bad if not worse. Trump should refuse to even recognize the legitimacy of these nations. Especially that of "democracies" ruled by drug cartel-backed communist dictators such as Venezuela. Blow up a fucking boat? You really should see what these people do to each other and to the people subjected to their rule on a daily basis. Trump was actually quite humane.