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I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference. Just imagine the difference in the level of fear that you would feel about 1) getting up in a public square in

I think it's pretty easy to tell the difference. Just imagine the difference in the level of fear that you would feel about 1) getting up in a public square in the US and yelling that Trump is a terrible person who should be removed from power, vs. 2) getting up in a public square in Russia and yelling that Putin is a terrible person who should be removed from power.

pharrington 1y ago
Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?
- hax0ron3 1y ago
  Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.
  - treyd 1y ago
    See Mahmoud Khalil's case. They're trying to and would continue to have done so if they weren't blocked. What is there stopping them from changing the rules and doing it again?
    - hax0ron3 1y ago
      I disagree with what has been done in the Mahmoud Khalil matter. But it is a far distance between that on the one hand and what happens in places like Russia on the other. I'm not trying to minimize the dangers of Trump. My point is that there is a huge difference in the level of authoritarianism between today's US and what I consider to be actual authoritarian countries. Today's US is one of the freest countries on the entire planet. We should keep it that way. I don't see what good it does to act as if today's US is anywhere close to actual authoritarian countries.
      - krapp 1y ago
        The distance is closing, it's already closer than many Americans would have considered possible. How close does it need to get before we should be concerned?
        hax0ron3 1y ago
        I'm already somewhat concerned. I've been concerned since long before Trump. And Trump has added some new concerns. For example, with that strike against the Venezualan boat today. But that doesn't mean that I believe that we're anywhere actually close to it. Those are two separate questions. People really should try to understand that if someone says "I think that the US is vastly freer than Russia", it does not mean "I think that there is no reason for concern" or "I think that the US is going in a good direction".
        Jensson 1y ago
        Is it really worse than McCarthyism era? I feel that time was much worse than currently.
        coldtea 1y ago
        Blacks were once slaves. Women couldn't vote. Japanese-Americans were put in camps. Worker strikes were met with guards killing people. Rousevelt had amassed all kinds of extra executive powers and control of all aspects of government that would seem over the top excessive before him. Is today really "closer than many Americans would have considered possible"?
      - treyd 1y ago
        Have you decided what your personal red line is after which you would conclude that we've entered an authoritarian regime? Have we crossed the neofascist Rubicon yet? [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs
    - chasd00 1y ago
      > See Mahmoud Khalil's case they fact that you know about this case at all and how much it has been in the news and the outrage and protest against the executive branch speaks volumes to the differences between the US and real authoritarian regimes.
  - Capricorn2481 1y ago
    It's exactly these comments the OP is talking about. This is what they are trying to do, what they said they would do, and it's the kind of authoritarian shit that Trump has publicly praised and envied Putin for.
  - exe34 1y ago
    yet. right now they are "deporting" (without due process it's kidnapping/trafficking) in order of skin colour. they will work their way down towards you.
  - slightwinder 1y ago
    > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions. Actually, they do. If you have the wrong color, they take any reason as a pretext for action.
  - antonvs 1y ago
    I'm happy for you as a privileged US citizen, enjoying your privilege as someone who's at least currently on the right side of the line, but anyone who's a legal immigrant doesn't feel anywhere near the same degree of security that you do. The administration recently announced that it will review the visas of 55 million immigrants, and factors like political opinion are on the table when it comes to their choice of who to go after. "First They Came"[1] was written to try to wake up people like you, whose privilege blinded them to the significance of the events around them. You need to start paying attention before you lose the country you thought you knew. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
  - NoGravitas 1y ago
    > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions Not yet? Currently, they are only imprisoning and deporting legal permanent residents and people on student visas for their political opinions. But denaturalization is clearly on the table.
  - ElevenLathe 1y ago
    Go do it then. See if you can get a permit in DC right now to have a rally and shout that Trump sucks. If you can, try actually doing it. You will not be doing it for very long until some excuse is made to stop you and punish you.
  - Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
    > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions True, but ICE is imprisoning and deporting US citizens simply for being an immigrant with the wrong skin color.
saghm 1y ago
> getting up in a public square in the US and yelling that Trump is a terrible person who should be removed from power I think lot of people I know would feel concerned about what might happen to them if they did that right about now. I don't pretend to know anything about you, but it might be worth examining whether the level of concern you expect people would have about this might vary quite between people with different circumstances than yours. At least to me, it seems pretty likely that if a country were to slide into authoritarianism, not everyone would feel the effects equally all at once, so the fact that you haven't felt a change in your level of concern about this doesn't necessarily mean that a shift isn't happening. To be clear, I'm definitively not saying that it's impossible for anyone to know whether it's happening or not because we can't know the experience of literally everyone, or that I'm 100% positive what we're experiencing will end up in undeniable strict authoritarianism for everyone. My point is that I do think there's been a genuine shift in how safe a large number of people feel from persecution in the past year and a half that's based on things happening to them or people in similar circumstances to them. It's certainly possible that I'm in a bubble where I'm associating with a lot more people than average who have these concerns, but the reverse is equally true for someone who hasn't been noticing these things, and I do think there's sufficient evidence that the concerns are real. The implicit assumption that everyone feels equally comfortable in their rights protecting them just isn't something that seems accurate right now.
- chasd00 1y ago
  > I think lot of people I know would feel concerned about what might happen to them if they did that right about now. don't be ridiculous there are anti-trump protests every single day. Even on Labor Day (last Monday).
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  If I did that, I would expect that I would get some dirty looks. I might get yelled at. I might even get beaten up (by private individuals, not by the authorities). The cops might come by and cite me for disturbing the peace. I would not be disappeared. I would not be charged with a felony. I would not be imprisoned for years or decades. And, where the rubber meets the road for my personal mental health: I can say what I think to my friends and family. They may disagree. They may even argue. They're not going to report me to the secret police, nor are there secret police waiting for someone to report something. That distinction really matters.

pharrington 1y ago

Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?

hax0ron3 1y ago
Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.
- treyd 1y ago
  See Mahmoud Khalil's case. They're trying to and would continue to have done so if they weren't blocked. What is there stopping them from changing the rules and doing it again?
  - hax0ron3 1y ago
    I disagree with what has been done in the Mahmoud Khalil matter. But it is a far distance between that on the one hand and what happens in places like Russia on the other. I'm not trying to minimize the dangers of Trump. My point is that there is a huge difference in the level of authoritarianism between today's US and what I consider to be actual authoritarian countries. Today's US is one of the freest countries on the entire planet. We should keep it that way. I don't see what good it does to act as if today's US is anywhere close to actual authoritarian countries.
    - krapp 1y ago
      The distance is closing, it's already closer than many Americans would have considered possible. How close does it need to get before we should be concerned?
      - hax0ron3 1y ago
        I'm already somewhat concerned. I've been concerned since long before Trump. And Trump has added some new concerns. For example, with that strike against the Venezualan boat today. But that doesn't mean that I believe that we're anywhere actually close to it. Those are two separate questions. People really should try to understand that if someone says "I think that the US is vastly freer than Russia", it does not mean "I think that there is no reason for concern" or "I think that the US is going in a good direction".
      - Jensson 1y ago
        Is it really worse than McCarthyism era? I feel that time was much worse than currently.
      - coldtea 1y ago
        Blacks were once slaves. Women couldn't vote. Japanese-Americans were put in camps. Worker strikes were met with guards killing people. Rousevelt had amassed all kinds of extra executive powers and control of all aspects of government that would seem over the top excessive before him. Is today really "closer than many Americans would have considered possible"?
    - treyd 1y ago
      Have you decided what your personal red line is after which you would conclude that we've entered an authoritarian regime? Have we crossed the neofascist Rubicon yet? [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YFdwfNh5vs
  - chasd00 1y ago
    > See Mahmoud Khalil's case they fact that you know about this case at all and how much it has been in the news and the outrage and protest against the executive branch speaks volumes to the differences between the US and real authoritarian regimes.
- Capricorn2481 1y ago
  It's exactly these comments the OP is talking about. This is what they are trying to do, what they said they would do, and it's the kind of authoritarian shit that Trump has publicly praised and envied Putin for.
- exe34 1y ago
  yet. right now they are "deporting" (without due process it's kidnapping/trafficking) in order of skin colour. they will work their way down towards you.
- slightwinder 1y ago
  > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions. Actually, they do. If you have the wrong color, they take any reason as a pretext for action.
- antonvs 1y ago
  I'm happy for you as a privileged US citizen, enjoying your privilege as someone who's at least currently on the right side of the line, but anyone who's a legal immigrant doesn't feel anywhere near the same degree of security that you do. The administration recently announced that it will review the visas of 55 million immigrants, and factors like political opinion are on the table when it comes to their choice of who to go after. "First They Came"[1] was written to try to wake up people like you, whose privilege blinded them to the significance of the events around them. You need to start paying attention before you lose the country you thought you knew. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
- NoGravitas 1y ago
  > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions Not yet? Currently, they are only imprisoning and deporting legal permanent residents and people on student visas for their political opinions. But denaturalization is clearly on the table.
- ElevenLathe 1y ago
  Go do it then. See if you can get a permit in DC right now to have a rally and shout that Trump sucks. If you can, try actually doing it. You will not be doing it for very long until some excuse is made to stop you and punish you.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
  > Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions True, but ICE is imprisoning and deporting US citizens simply for being an immigrant with the wrong skin color.

saghm 1y ago

> getting up in a public square in the US and yelling that Trump is a terrible person who should be removed from power I think lot of people I know would feel concerned about what might happen to them if they did that right about now. I don't pretend to know anything about you, but it might be worth examining whether the level of concern you expect people would have about this might vary quite between people with different circumstances than yours. At least to me, it seems pretty likely that if a country were to slide into authoritarianism, not everyone would feel the effects equally all at once, so the fact that you haven't felt a change in your level of concern about this doesn't necessarily mean that a shift isn't happening. To be clear, I'm definitively not saying that it's impossible for anyone to know whether it's happening or not because we can't know the experience of literally everyone, or that I'm 100% positive what we're experiencing will end up in undeniable strict authoritarianism for everyone. My point is that I do think there's been a genuine shift in how safe a large number of people feel from persecution in the past year and a half that's based on things happening to them or people in similar circumstances to them. It's certainly possible that I'm in a bubble where I'm associating with a lot more people than average who have these concerns, but the reverse is equally true for someone who hasn't been noticing these things, and I do think there's sufficient evidence that the concerns are real. The implicit assumption that everyone feels equally comfortable in their rights protecting them just isn't something that seems accurate right now.

chasd00 1y ago
> I think lot of people I know would feel concerned about what might happen to them if they did that right about now. don't be ridiculous there are anti-trump protests every single day. Even on Labor Day (last Monday).
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
If I did that, I would expect that I would get some dirty looks. I might get yelled at. I might even get beaten up (by private individuals, not by the authorities). The cops might come by and cite me for disturbing the peace. I would not be disappeared. I would not be charged with a felony. I would not be imprisoned for years or decades. And, where the rubber meets the road for my personal mental health: I can say what I think to my friends and family. They may disagree. They may even argue. They're not going to report me to the secret police, nor are there secret police waiting for someone to report something. That distinction really matters.