3 ms·

Microsoft has done a lot of things wrong in terms of its various software offerings. Visual Studio is one of the things that they have done a pretty good job on

by icey 18y ago

Microsoft has done a lot of things wrong in terms of its various software offerings. Visual Studio is one of the things that they have done a pretty good job on though. Asp.net is also very attractive to the legions of .Net developers who may not have much exposure to the web way. It mostly abstracts web interactions away, so that it's not a huge leap to go from client/server applications to web apps. Sure, there is a lot of code in the final result, but the IDE helps automate a lot of that, and in combination with ReSharper, it's not a bad environment to work in.

ratsbane 18y ago
When you abstract away the web as .Net does you also miss out on the subtleties - e.g. "Postback" - the .Net function that stores server state in an encoded string which it embeds in a form on the web page and restores state. It makes the web seem friendly to ex-Windows programmers but ignores the HTTP RFCs and ends up as big non-REST-ful mess. .Net is full of features that make it easy for Windows programmers to avoid learning how to use the web properly.
- jcapote 18y ago
  ".Net is full of features that make it easy for Windows programmers to avoid learning how to use the web properly." Upvoted for quote.
  - dangrover 18y ago
    This is an important point to consider in frameworks. Does $abstraction make things easier because you don't have to learn about $technology, or does it make things easier because it eliminates the repetitive parts of $technology? Keep in mind, the former reason is entirely fine/admirable -- so long as the abstraction is not unnecessarily leaky. Why learn something you don't have to? I hav skepticism over Cappuccino because, as someone who does a lot of web and Obj-C/Cocoa development, I see a lot of my Mac dev friends attracted to it not for its merits as a solution for making web apps, but because they don't want to learn anything about web technology. Still, I have a lot higher opinion of Cappucino than ASP.NET :)
ideamonk 18y ago
Yeah I agree that Visual Studio is one of the best and robust IDEs I've ever worked on, it keeps improving...

by icey 18y ago

ratsbane 18y ago

When you abstract away the web as .Net does you also miss out on the subtleties - e.g. "Postback" - the .Net function that stores server state in an encoded string which it embeds in a form on the web page and restores state. It makes the web seem friendly to ex-Windows programmers but ignores the HTTP RFCs and ends up as big non-REST-ful mess. .Net is full of features that make it easy for Windows programmers to avoid learning how to use the web properly.

jcapote 18y ago
".Net is full of features that make it easy for Windows programmers to avoid learning how to use the web properly." Upvoted for quote.
- dangrover 18y ago
  This is an important point to consider in frameworks. Does $abstraction make things easier because you don't have to learn about $technology, or does it make things easier because it eliminates the repetitive parts of $technology? Keep in mind, the former reason is entirely fine/admirable -- so long as the abstraction is not unnecessarily leaky. Why learn something you don't have to? I hav skepticism over Cappuccino because, as someone who does a lot of web and Obj-C/Cocoa development, I see a lot of my Mac dev friends attracted to it not for its merits as a solution for making web apps, but because they don't want to learn anything about web technology. Still, I have a lot higher opinion of Cappucino than ASP.NET :)

ideamonk 18y ago

Yeah I agree that Visual Studio is one of the best and robust IDEs I've ever worked on, it keeps improving...