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Security-wise, passkeys are worse than username/password plus WebAuthn as the second factor.
by cuu508 1y ago
Security-wise, passkeys are worse than username/password plus WebAuthn as the second factor.
- tptacek 1y agoBut better than username/password + TOTP, and username/password + WebAuthn had really low uptake.
- AlexandrB 1y agoUsername/password + TOTP is still better than username/password + one time email, no? Especially since the latter creates additional dependencies/risks for the user in the form of an email account.
- tptacek 1y agoThey're about the same. The important factor is phishing resistance (neither TOTP nor email links have that), and an account that has lost its primary email account is 99% of the time already boned. I would use TOTP in preference to email backup, but that's mostly an affectation. The reality is that TOTP has been obsolete for awhile now. It's a net negative for ordinary users that is kept front-of-mind for everyone because nerds like us are attached to it.
- jrochkind1 1y agoThis is actually the first I've heard of this, re considering TOTP to be not worthwhile. Can you recommend some links to material for me to read to get up to speed with the argument?
- tptacek 1y agoBasically everything ever written about U2F, WebAuthn, and phishing-proof authentication generally is about the weaknesses of TOTP. The principle component of the problem is phishing.
- harshreality 1y agoThere are sites requiring TOTP to mitigate careless users using dumb passwords, because the sites can't guarantee passwords aren't reused but they can enforce TOTP. Even for phishing, doesn't it count for something that TOTP prevents asynchronous phishing (collect credentials on a fake site, try them in batches later)?
- tptacek 1y agoNo, it does not. Everybody agrees that password + TOTP is better than just plain passwords. Everything is better than just plain passwords. But I've personally worked on large, high-stakes projects where TOTP phishing was a continuous problem, and it's really difficult to solve. Since we have options besides TOTP that aren't susceptible to phishing, people shouldn't be pushing TOTP anymore.
- jrochkind1 1y agoWhat is your current to use at this moment preferred option for a general (not especially sensitive domain like banking) consumer site?
- esseph 1y agoTOTP is not phishing resistant, passkeys are. Also can screen grab TOTP.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kriops 1y agoIf and only if you somehow manage to compromise one secret without compromising the other.