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Should we chase equality for everything? Or should we ensure basic rights are guaranteed and let everyone do as they prefer? The only equality on paper we chas

Should we chase equality for everything? Or should we ensure basic rights are guaranteed and let everyone do as they prefer? The only equality on paper we chase is before the law, everything else is up to luck and decisions.

jplusequalt 1y ago
>The only equality on paper we chase is before the law When have the rich ever been held to the same standards as the average American?
- Izikiel43 1y ago
  Hence why I said on paper.
vladms 1y ago
I think we should avoid extreme inequality. We should talk distributions not "equality" vs "everything else".
- Izikiel43 1y ago
  I would change that to extreme poverty. There should be a guaranteed minimum standard of living which is humane, basically access to food, housing, education and health. After that, is up to every individual. I remember a previous discussion here about ozempic, and how one commenter was asking how to force his father to become healthy, as it was using ozempic as a crutch and leaning back to it when he needed to, while going back to his vices (smoking, drinking, being overweight by eating junk food). The answer was, unless you remove his self agency or can convince him so he does it himself, he won’t change.
  - vladms 1y ago
    While I would like that as well, I think inequality is easier to define than poverty (for inequality you can consider only wealth and income), easier to explain and easier to act on. I think that even two like-minded people can spend too much time talking about what exactly is "basically access to food, housing, education and health", before doing anything.
    - Izikiel43 1y ago
      > I think inequality is easier to define than poverty (for inequality you can consider only wealth and income), easier to explain and easier to act on. Au contraire, I think inequality while easy to define is hard to act on, and it also merits the question if you should act at all, we have seen several experiments on forcing equality and millions died. Defining food, housing, education and health is not hard. We have guidelines on being healthy already, so you need access to preventive care to do so. Education you would just need easier/less onerous access to university education. Food requires a change of culture, which has been happening over the past 20 years. Housing, at least a studio place should be enough.
      - komali2 1y ago
        > we have seen several experiments on forcing equality and millions died. I've not heard of this. Which experiments "forced equality" and then as a result caused millions of deaths? I'm aware of the experiment of capitalism failing in India to the tune of about 100 million dead, is that what you mean? With capitalism's attempts to equalize through meritocracy?
        Izikiel43 1y ago
        URSS, Mao's china, other communist regimes throughout the 20th century. Capitalism doesn't equalize, it tries to maximize.
        dragonwriter 1y ago
        They used equality as a rhetorical pretext for empowering a different narrow elite that the one than the revolutionary cadre replaced.
        Izikiel43 1y ago
        Weird though that every time the same thing ended up happening.
        1y ago

jplusequalt 1y ago

>The only equality on paper we chase is before the law When have the rich ever been held to the same standards as the average American?

Izikiel43 1y ago
Hence why I said on paper.

vladms 1y ago

I think we should avoid extreme inequality. We should talk distributions not "equality" vs "everything else".

Izikiel43 1y ago
I would change that to extreme poverty. There should be a guaranteed minimum standard of living which is humane, basically access to food, housing, education and health. After that, is up to every individual. I remember a previous discussion here about ozempic, and how one commenter was asking how to force his father to become healthy, as it was using ozempic as a crutch and leaning back to it when he needed to, while going back to his vices (smoking, drinking, being overweight by eating junk food). The answer was, unless you remove his self agency or can convince him so he does it himself, he won’t change.
- vladms 1y ago
  While I would like that as well, I think inequality is easier to define than poverty (for inequality you can consider only wealth and income), easier to explain and easier to act on. I think that even two like-minded people can spend too much time talking about what exactly is "basically access to food, housing, education and health", before doing anything.
  - Izikiel43 1y ago
    > I think inequality is easier to define than poverty (for inequality you can consider only wealth and income), easier to explain and easier to act on. Au contraire, I think inequality while easy to define is hard to act on, and it also merits the question if you should act at all, we have seen several experiments on forcing equality and millions died. Defining food, housing, education and health is not hard. We have guidelines on being healthy already, so you need access to preventive care to do so. Education you would just need easier/less onerous access to university education. Food requires a change of culture, which has been happening over the past 20 years. Housing, at least a studio place should be enough.
    - komali2 1y ago
      > we have seen several experiments on forcing equality and millions died. I've not heard of this. Which experiments "forced equality" and then as a result caused millions of deaths? I'm aware of the experiment of capitalism failing in India to the tune of about 100 million dead, is that what you mean? With capitalism's attempts to equalize through meritocracy?
      - Izikiel43 1y ago
        URSS, Mao's china, other communist regimes throughout the 20th century. Capitalism doesn't equalize, it tries to maximize.
        dragonwriter 1y ago
        They used equality as a rhetorical pretext for empowering a different narrow elite that the one than the revolutionary cadre replaced.
        Izikiel43 1y ago
        Weird though that every time the same thing ended up happening.
        1y ago