5 ms·

> The train of thought is “what is everyone using? I’ll use that too” I'm not so sure about that. We're seeing Next.js being pushed as the successor of create-

> The train of thought is “what is everyone using? I’ll use that too” I'm not so sure about that. We're seeing Next.js being pushed as the successor of create-react-app even in react.dev[1], which as a premise is kind of stupid. There is something wrong definitely going on. [1] https://react.dev/learn/creating-a-react-app https://react.dev/learn/creating-a-react-app

whstl 1y ago
It was interesting handling frontend interviews recently. We do a 30-min tops exercise where you create a React project to show how to use useState and useEffect, etc. I help with whatever command they want to use and allow Google/ChatGPT. More than half of the candidates had no idea how to use React without Next.js, and some argued it was impossible, even after I told them the opposite.
- fragmede 1y ago
  What are you really testing for? That sounds like a bad interview.
  - recursive 1y ago
    Basic react experience presumably. As a first approximation, it seems like every possible interview sounds like a bad interview to someone. What has worked well for you?
    - fragmede 1y ago
      Seems more like a test on random React minutiae. Like, let's take some framework, take away some random piece. How well do you know the area around that random piece we just removed? Frameworks are large and gnarly (or there isn't enough to them). Expecting a candidate to be lucky and know random implementation details in the area that happened to be picked doesn't seem like you'd select for anything other than luck. For me, lately, the interview question is "here's code that ChatGPT generated for (previous interview question as related to the role we're hiring for that we could do)", what's wrong with it? What do now? (ChatGPT may or may not have actually generated the code in question.)
      - 9rx 1y ago
        > Seems more like a test on random React minutiae. It is more like test on whether or not you can figure out random React minutiae (with Google/ChatGPT, if needed) when presented with a need. Which isn't a bad approximation for how well you will do at finding any random minutiae as needs present themselves. React-based development doesn't require much original thought — the vast majority of the job really is just figuring out the minutiae of your dependencies to fit your circumstantial need. For fun, I asked ChatGPT for an answer and it gave a perfectly good one back without hesitation. Even if you had no idea what React was beyond knowing it is a library for developing web components, you should still be able to answer that particular question with ease.
        fragmede 1y ago
        I was assuming that particular interview was not open ChatGPT. If all you want to test for is can you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth, type that into ChatGPT, and then read it to me, yeah, it seems fine.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        9rx 1y ago
        Why would one random part of the interview disallow ChatGPT when it is otherwise accepted for answering other random React minutiae?
        fragmede 1y ago
        Because humans have to interact with other humans in conversations, and if you can't read social cues as to when something is and isn't acceptable, you're boned. I have trouble with that, so it's not surprising to me when others do as well. When you're in a work meeting, do you just put ChatGPT up on one laptop and Claude on another and just sit back for 30 minutes to an hour?
- nikole9696 1y ago
  This surprises me a lot. I spin up new react apps with vite often to replicate issues with 3rd party libs we use. Like how do they not know you can just spin something up over on CodePen or CodeSandbox and there's not a hint of a server side paradigm required? (sure, vite has a little server but you don't really need to know anything about it)
  - whstl 1y ago
    Some devs have worked exclusively in feature mills where expectations are rock bottom and some senior setups the project for them. When recruiters don't filter them, a basic React test has to.
hungryhobbit 1y ago
You have to remember, Next is the only framework that can support some of the features in the latest version of React. To many people, it's just basic logic: "everyone must want the latest React features, and the only way to get those is with Next, so everyone must want Next".
- motorest 1y ago
  > You have to remember, Next is the only framework that can support some of the features in the latest version of React. That is extremely fishy, isn't it?
  - hombre_fatal 1y ago
    Not necessarily since they have to do with the inherently complex niche features like unified server/client rendering (e.g. RSC, streaming SSR with selective hydration, server actions). Next.js is essentially the reference and test bed impl. Where people go wrong is thinking they need to default to the inherently complex niche feature of client hydration which is a niche optimization enabled by a quirk of web tech.
    - motorest 1y ago
      > Not necessarily since they have to do with the inherently complex niche features like unified server/client rendering (...) My point is that it's fishy how they push features that just so happen to be the value proposition of the only corporation that just so happens to be able to implement them.
- johnnypangs 1y ago
  Vite is coming along with rsc at least. https://github.com/vitejs/vite-plugin-react/tree/main/packages/plugin-rsc https://github.com/vitejs/vite-plugin-react/tree/main/packag...

whstl 1y ago

It was interesting handling frontend interviews recently. We do a 30-min tops exercise where you create a React project to show how to use useState and useEffect, etc. I help with whatever command they want to use and allow Google/ChatGPT. More than half of the candidates had no idea how to use React without Next.js, and some argued it was impossible, even after I told them the opposite.

fragmede 1y ago
What are you really testing for? That sounds like a bad interview.
- recursive 1y ago
  Basic react experience presumably. As a first approximation, it seems like every possible interview sounds like a bad interview to someone. What has worked well for you?
  - fragmede 1y ago
    Seems more like a test on random React minutiae. Like, let's take some framework, take away some random piece. How well do you know the area around that random piece we just removed? Frameworks are large and gnarly (or there isn't enough to them). Expecting a candidate to be lucky and know random implementation details in the area that happened to be picked doesn't seem like you'd select for anything other than luck. For me, lately, the interview question is "here's code that ChatGPT generated for (previous interview question as related to the role we're hiring for that we could do)", what's wrong with it? What do now? (ChatGPT may or may not have actually generated the code in question.)
    - 9rx 1y ago
      > Seems more like a test on random React minutiae. It is more like test on whether or not you can figure out random React minutiae (with Google/ChatGPT, if needed) when presented with a need. Which isn't a bad approximation for how well you will do at finding any random minutiae as needs present themselves. React-based development doesn't require much original thought — the vast majority of the job really is just figuring out the minutiae of your dependencies to fit your circumstantial need. For fun, I asked ChatGPT for an answer and it gave a perfectly good one back without hesitation. Even if you had no idea what React was beyond knowing it is a library for developing web components, you should still be able to answer that particular question with ease.
      - fragmede 1y ago
        I was assuming that particular interview was not open ChatGPT. If all you want to test for is can you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth, type that into ChatGPT, and then read it to me, yeah, it seems fine.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        9rx 1y ago
        Why would one random part of the interview disallow ChatGPT when it is otherwise accepted for answering other random React minutiae?
        fragmede 1y ago
        Because humans have to interact with other humans in conversations, and if you can't read social cues as to when something is and isn't acceptable, you're boned. I have trouble with that, so it's not surprising to me when others do as well. When you're in a work meeting, do you just put ChatGPT up on one laptop and Claude on another and just sit back for 30 minutes to an hour?
nikole9696 1y ago
This surprises me a lot. I spin up new react apps with vite often to replicate issues with 3rd party libs we use. Like how do they not know you can just spin something up over on CodePen or CodeSandbox and there's not a hint of a server side paradigm required? (sure, vite has a little server but you don't really need to know anything about it)
- whstl 1y ago
  Some devs have worked exclusively in feature mills where expectations are rock bottom and some senior setups the project for them. When recruiters don't filter them, a basic React test has to.

hungryhobbit 1y ago

You have to remember, Next is the only framework that can support some of the features in the latest version of React. To many people, it's just basic logic: "everyone must want the latest React features, and the only way to get those is with Next, so everyone must want Next".

motorest 1y ago
> You have to remember, Next is the only framework that can support some of the features in the latest version of React. That is extremely fishy, isn't it?
- hombre_fatal 1y ago
  Not necessarily since they have to do with the inherently complex niche features like unified server/client rendering (e.g. RSC, streaming SSR with selective hydration, server actions). Next.js is essentially the reference and test bed impl. Where people go wrong is thinking they need to default to the inherently complex niche feature of client hydration which is a niche optimization enabled by a quirk of web tech.
  - motorest 1y ago
    > Not necessarily since they have to do with the inherently complex niche features like unified server/client rendering (...) My point is that it's fishy how they push features that just so happen to be the value proposition of the only corporation that just so happens to be able to implement them.
johnnypangs 1y ago
Vite is coming along with rsc at least. https://github.com/vitejs/vite-plugin-react/tree/main/packages/plugin-rsc https://github.com/vitejs/vite-plugin-react/tree/main/packag...