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It's always alarming to see comments like this. I knew there were lots of you that hated the constitution, but that the disconnect is this far is hard to recogn

It's always alarming to see comments like this. I knew there were lots of you that hated the constitution, but that the disconnect is this far is hard to recognize.

flanked-evergl 1y ago
Claiming that something "seems" so does not make it so. So far, I believe there has been 0 deportations of people who are citizens or held valid visas or green cards. I know it's seriously upsetting to some that laws are enforced, but that does not make it unconstitutional to do so.
- Quarrelsome 1y ago
  So the rights of the constitution should only apply to citizens? I thought Thomas Paine wrote the book "The Rights of Man", not "The Rights of American Citizens". How does one misjudge the intent of the founding fathers so? The intent was to create a world free from the tyranny of the European ruling classes, where people had inherent rights, but some people just toss that away without regard.
  - flanked-evergl 1y ago
    I believe there has been 0 deportations of people who are citizens or held valid visas or green cards. In cases where the government has made mistakes or failed to follow the law or the constitution, it has followed the court instructions for correcting it — as far as I know, that was 1 case. The founders of the US did not intend for the US Constitution to be a suicide pact for the US. Thomas Paine and his books is not mentioned one single time in the US Constitution, and he was excluded from the constitutional convention. Instead of making allegations to systemic infringement of constitutional rights, be specific, cite evidence, give statistics. One ruling against a government is not sufficient evidence for these claims.
    - Quarrelsome 1y ago
      Its not about the technicalities of whether someone got deported or not, its about detaining a green card holder like Jemmy Jimenez Rosa in an illegal fashion. Its about detaining scores of tourists for bullshit reasons, when they're entirely willing and able to leave the country, hiding them across a range of detention centres so their friends, families and lawyers can't find them and preventing their access to the legal system. Its tyranny, they're not interested in justice, they're chasing targets for bonuses, they're trying to hit numbers for headlines, or maybe even for prison kickbacks as most of the holding cells are privately run. The founding fathers of the US cared about tyranny, about the rights of people. Thomas Paine himself believed in "natural law", a set of rights that were natural for people to have and the state came _second_ to those natural laws. Remember that the USA was created in counter to a European norm at that time where people's rights were systemically stamped upon by a ruling elite. Its not about citing evidence or giving statistics, its about believing that humanity itself has rights and a government needs to follow specific rules in order to curtail those rights that respect the natural rights of people. How ICE are operating is not American and its the polar opposite of patriotic. Right now, ICE can bowl up to anyone on the street wearing masks, not identify themselves and bundle them into a van and take them to an undisclosed location for weeks, if not months with zero recourse. You don't need statistics to understand that's tyranny.
      - flanked-evergl 1y ago
        > Its not about the technicalities of whether someone got deported or not, its about detaining a green card holder like Jemmy Jimenez Rosa in an illegal fashion. As far as I'm aware, there is no ruling that the detention of Jemmy Jimenez Rosa was illegal. > Its not about citing evidence or giving statistics, If someone claims there is a systemic infringement of constitutional rights, evidence is the only thing that can back the claim up. > Right now, ICE can bowl up to anyone on the street wearing masks, not identify themselves and bundle them into a van and take them to an undisclosed location for weeks, if not months with zero recourse. Why could they do that right now and not 12 months ago also? Has the law changed?
        1y ago

It's always alarming to see comments like this. I knew there were lots of you that hated the constitution, but that the disconnect is this far is hard to recognize.

flanked-evergl 1y ago

Claiming that something "seems" so does not make it so. So far, I believe there has been 0 deportations of people who are citizens or held valid visas or green cards. I know it's seriously upsetting to some that laws are enforced, but that does not make it unconstitutional to do so.

Quarrelsome 1y ago
So the rights of the constitution should only apply to citizens? I thought Thomas Paine wrote the book "The Rights of Man", not "The Rights of American Citizens". How does one misjudge the intent of the founding fathers so? The intent was to create a world free from the tyranny of the European ruling classes, where people had inherent rights, but some people just toss that away without regard.
- flanked-evergl 1y ago
  I believe there has been 0 deportations of people who are citizens or held valid visas or green cards. In cases where the government has made mistakes or failed to follow the law or the constitution, it has followed the court instructions for correcting it — as far as I know, that was 1 case. The founders of the US did not intend for the US Constitution to be a suicide pact for the US. Thomas Paine and his books is not mentioned one single time in the US Constitution, and he was excluded from the constitutional convention. Instead of making allegations to systemic infringement of constitutional rights, be specific, cite evidence, give statistics. One ruling against a government is not sufficient evidence for these claims.
  - Quarrelsome 1y ago
    Its not about the technicalities of whether someone got deported or not, its about detaining a green card holder like Jemmy Jimenez Rosa in an illegal fashion. Its about detaining scores of tourists for bullshit reasons, when they're entirely willing and able to leave the country, hiding them across a range of detention centres so their friends, families and lawyers can't find them and preventing their access to the legal system. Its tyranny, they're not interested in justice, they're chasing targets for bonuses, they're trying to hit numbers for headlines, or maybe even for prison kickbacks as most of the holding cells are privately run. The founding fathers of the US cared about tyranny, about the rights of people. Thomas Paine himself believed in "natural law", a set of rights that were natural for people to have and the state came _second_ to those natural laws. Remember that the USA was created in counter to a European norm at that time where people's rights were systemically stamped upon by a ruling elite. Its not about citing evidence or giving statistics, its about believing that humanity itself has rights and a government needs to follow specific rules in order to curtail those rights that respect the natural rights of people. How ICE are operating is not American and its the polar opposite of patriotic. Right now, ICE can bowl up to anyone on the street wearing masks, not identify themselves and bundle them into a van and take them to an undisclosed location for weeks, if not months with zero recourse. You don't need statistics to understand that's tyranny.
    - flanked-evergl 1y ago
      > Its not about the technicalities of whether someone got deported or not, its about detaining a green card holder like Jemmy Jimenez Rosa in an illegal fashion. As far as I'm aware, there is no ruling that the detention of Jemmy Jimenez Rosa was illegal. > Its not about citing evidence or giving statistics, If someone claims there is a systemic infringement of constitutional rights, evidence is the only thing that can back the claim up. > Right now, ICE can bowl up to anyone on the street wearing masks, not identify themselves and bundle them into a van and take them to an undisclosed location for weeks, if not months with zero recourse. Why could they do that right now and not 12 months ago also? Has the law changed?
      - 1y ago