5 ms·

You apparently haven't been keeping track of all the madness. First of all, the immigration laws aren't rational. The states aren't "legal" and "illegal", but

by gwd 1y ago

You apparently haven't been keeping track of all the madness. First of all, the immigration laws aren't rational. The states aren't "legal" and "illegal", but "documented" and "undocumented". It's often the case that The Official Way To Do Things can cause you to transition from a "documented" state to an "undocumented" state and back again while in the country. Part of what people like the author are trying to do is to help people who made the documented -> undocumented transition to complete their undocumented -> documented transition before ICE an export them somewhere. Secondly, ICE has basically been given a target of 500k people to expel. They've always had a reputation for being more on the "bully / asshole" side than normal, and now those people have been given a blank check to crank it up to 11. Finally, there are clear, documented cases of ICE breaking the law and then trying to play games to get around it. Go look up the Abrego-Garcia case: 1. He came in legally, and was documented -- he had a court order forbidding him from being extradited to El Salvador, and was checking in regularly. 2. They swept him up, erroneously identified him as a gang member, and shipped him out to El Salvador before anyone had a chance to do anything to protest 3. They admitted in court that extraditing him was a mistake; but then said, "Well, he's out of our jurisdiction now, we can't do anything to get him back." 4. When, after months of wrangling, they finally did bring him back, they decided to charge him with a crime for something he did years ago (even though they didn't decide to charge him with anything back then, and had plenty of opportunities to do so earlier). So basically, 1) The immigration laws are broken: not just and not really follow-able 2) ICE often don't follow the law unless browbeaten by the courts to do so 3) they often try to entirely avoid the courts by playing jurisdictional games. There's a good reason that large numbers of intelligent, dedicated patriots are organizing to oppose ICE.

mothballed 1y ago
By doing (4) they reset the asylum clock and now he can reapply, with a pretty rock solid evidence of torture in el salvador at cecot.
mikevm 1y ago
[flagged]
- malnourish 1y ago
  > He left El Salvador at the age of 16, around 2011, to join his brother, who had become a U.S. citizen and was living in Maryland. > Although he was denied asylum, the immigration judge did issue an order shielding Abrego Garcia from deportation to El Salvador because he faced credible threats of violence from a gang there that had terrorized him and his family. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/kilmar-abrego-garcia-requests-asylum-in-us-hoping-to-prevent-deportation-to-uganda/3980707/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/kilmar-abrego-garci... Where did you read, "rival gang"? Under what circumstances are you ok with forcibly removing people to other countries without a trial? What scenarios is it ok to do so and also ignore judge's orders?
  - mikevm 1y ago
    [dead]
- gwd 1y ago
  > He DID NOT come in legally. So here we have what I think is some of the nonsense of the current laws. My understanding is that how you generally apply for asylum is: 1. Show up in the country one way or another 2. Apply for asylum So, is #1 "illegal", since he didn't have an official reason to be here long-term when he came into the country? Or is #1 "legal", since the laws for step 2 seem to be written in a way that step 1 is necessary? If you know more about how asylum actually works, feel free to enlighten me.
  - mikevm 1y ago
    [dead]
philipallstar 1y ago
My understanding is the court said not to send him back to El Salvador (he is from there) because he's an El Salvadorean gang member, and a rival gang would kill him there.
- ohdeargodno 1y ago
  No, that is merely what the US government alleged. There's an allegation from a suspended cop that he is a gang member because he wore a Chicago Bulls hat, and that's all ICE is basing itself on to call him a gang member. The court said not to send him back to El Salvador because he applied for asylum, and was granted asylum because he faced dangers in El Salvador. Not because he's a gang member, which are allegations that have never been proven.
  - nomdep 1y ago
    So the gang tattoos he has were just an unfortunate coincidence? Give me a break
    - 010101010101 1y ago
      A simple search of “Abrego Garcia tattoos” will yield you dozens of refutations of this and no support aside from the White House propaganda machine.
      - nomdep 1y ago
        A simple search yield dozens of propaganda pieces from the usual suspects (CNN, NYT, etc.). An image search, however, lead to actual photos like: https://x.com/USBornNRaised/status/1913325866764902738/photo/1 https://x.com/USBornNRaised/status/1913325866764902738/photo...
        ohdeargodno 1y ago
        Ah, yes, "Tired of Being Politically Correct (@USBornNRaised)" is certainly a very accurate source for information, and is definitely not the kind of person that would repost shitty edited pictures for political gain. Journalists ? Judges ? What's that ? Real americans get their news from random propaganda accounts on X.
reliabilityguy 1y ago
> Part of what people like the author are trying to do is to help people who made the documented -> undocumented transition to complete their undocumented -> documented transition before ICE an export them somewhere. Can you provide an example of such transition (for the context of the discussion)?
- vel0city 1y ago
  As an example, sometimes the time it takes for things to be processed can be longer than the timeframe one has to actually submit extension paperwork. This can lead to gaps where one loses their status temporarily and may have several months where its illegal for them to work in the country. This is true of a lot of workflows in USCIS.
  - reliabilityguy 1y ago
    > This can lead to gaps where one loses their status temporarily and may have several months where its illegal for them to work in the country. What status do they loose? Right to work (i.e., having a valid EAD card) and immigration status are two different things. > This is true of a lot of workflows in USCIS. Their workloads increased significantly over the past 3-4 years due to various factors, unfortunately.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      > Right to work (i.e., having a valid EAD card) and immigration status are two different things They're extremely intertwined and often practically the same thing. They become an "illegal migrant" for continuing to work to pay for groceries and rent while not having a lawful status allowing such activity. A deportable offense, correct? > Their workloads increased significantly over the past 3-4 years due to various factors, unfortunately. Good job showing your true colors. Issues like this have existed for decades. I know of people that struggled in this exact scenario in the 90s and 2000s, and I was only a child at the time. Maybe we should have passed that bipartisan immigration bill the orange man said no to which would have actually funded processing the workload. In the end though this administration doesn't want these people, they want to send them to prison camps. You can tell by watching what they do, raiding people showing up to their court proceedings, sending them to hellhole detention facilities without any due process, and ignoring court decisions.
reliabilityguy 1y ago
> He came in legally, and was documented The why was he > checking in regularly. I think this already means that he was in deportation proceedings, no? My understanding (perhaps not complete, and I would like to learn more) is that he was in deportation process and the only place he could not get deported to was El Salvador.

by gwd 1y ago

mothballed 1y ago

By doing (4) they reset the asylum clock and now he can reapply, with a pretty rock solid evidence of torture in el salvador at cecot.

mikevm 1y ago

[flagged]

malnourish 1y ago
> He left El Salvador at the age of 16, around 2011, to join his brother, who had become a U.S. citizen and was living in Maryland. > Although he was denied asylum, the immigration judge did issue an order shielding Abrego Garcia from deportation to El Salvador because he faced credible threats of violence from a gang there that had terrorized him and his family. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/kilmar-abrego-garcia-requests-asylum-in-us-hoping-to-prevent-deportation-to-uganda/3980707/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/kilmar-abrego-garci... Where did you read, "rival gang"? Under what circumstances are you ok with forcibly removing people to other countries without a trial? What scenarios is it ok to do so and also ignore judge's orders?
- mikevm 1y ago
  [dead]
gwd 1y ago
> He DID NOT come in legally. So here we have what I think is some of the nonsense of the current laws. My understanding is that how you generally apply for asylum is: 1. Show up in the country one way or another 2. Apply for asylum So, is #1 "illegal", since he didn't have an official reason to be here long-term when he came into the country? Or is #1 "legal", since the laws for step 2 seem to be written in a way that step 1 is necessary? If you know more about how asylum actually works, feel free to enlighten me.
- mikevm 1y ago
  [dead]

philipallstar 1y ago

My understanding is the court said not to send him back to El Salvador (he is from there) because he's an El Salvadorean gang member, and a rival gang would kill him there.

ohdeargodno 1y ago
No, that is merely what the US government alleged. There's an allegation from a suspended cop that he is a gang member because he wore a Chicago Bulls hat, and that's all ICE is basing itself on to call him a gang member. The court said not to send him back to El Salvador because he applied for asylum, and was granted asylum because he faced dangers in El Salvador. Not because he's a gang member, which are allegations that have never been proven.
- nomdep 1y ago
  So the gang tattoos he has were just an unfortunate coincidence? Give me a break
  - 010101010101 1y ago
    A simple search of “Abrego Garcia tattoos” will yield you dozens of refutations of this and no support aside from the White House propaganda machine.
    - nomdep 1y ago
      A simple search yield dozens of propaganda pieces from the usual suspects (CNN, NYT, etc.). An image search, however, lead to actual photos like: https://x.com/USBornNRaised/status/1913325866764902738/photo/1 https://x.com/USBornNRaised/status/1913325866764902738/photo...
      - ohdeargodno 1y ago
        Ah, yes, "Tired of Being Politically Correct (@USBornNRaised)" is certainly a very accurate source for information, and is definitely not the kind of person that would repost shitty edited pictures for political gain. Journalists ? Judges ? What's that ? Real americans get their news from random propaganda accounts on X.

reliabilityguy 1y ago

> Part of what people like the author are trying to do is to help people who made the documented -> undocumented transition to complete their undocumented -> documented transition before ICE an export them somewhere. Can you provide an example of such transition (for the context of the discussion)?

vel0city 1y ago
As an example, sometimes the time it takes for things to be processed can be longer than the timeframe one has to actually submit extension paperwork. This can lead to gaps where one loses their status temporarily and may have several months where its illegal for them to work in the country. This is true of a lot of workflows in USCIS.
- reliabilityguy 1y ago
  > This can lead to gaps where one loses their status temporarily and may have several months where its illegal for them to work in the country. What status do they loose? Right to work (i.e., having a valid EAD card) and immigration status are two different things. > This is true of a lot of workflows in USCIS. Their workloads increased significantly over the past 3-4 years due to various factors, unfortunately.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    > Right to work (i.e., having a valid EAD card) and immigration status are two different things They're extremely intertwined and often practically the same thing. They become an "illegal migrant" for continuing to work to pay for groceries and rent while not having a lawful status allowing such activity. A deportable offense, correct? > Their workloads increased significantly over the past 3-4 years due to various factors, unfortunately. Good job showing your true colors. Issues like this have existed for decades. I know of people that struggled in this exact scenario in the 90s and 2000s, and I was only a child at the time. Maybe we should have passed that bipartisan immigration bill the orange man said no to which would have actually funded processing the workload. In the end though this administration doesn't want these people, they want to send them to prison camps. You can tell by watching what they do, raiding people showing up to their court proceedings, sending them to hellhole detention facilities without any due process, and ignoring court decisions.

reliabilityguy 1y ago

> He came in legally, and was documented The why was he > checking in regularly. I think this already means that he was in deportation proceedings, no? My understanding (perhaps not complete, and I would like to learn more) is that he was in deportation process and the only place he could not get deported to was El Salvador.