4 ms·

I can't understand just how is Israel able to deliver precision strikes in Iran basically landing explosives to key personnel bedrooms (which is impressive!), b

by xyzal 1y ago

I can't understand just how is Israel able to deliver precision strikes in Iran basically landing explosives to key personnel bedrooms (which is impressive!), but w.r.t. Hamas -- allegedly a weaker adversary -- it just isn't possible! We have to end 60k people first. Does anyone have some rational explanation?

apexalpha 1y ago
In Iran they mostly blew up stuff that's fixed in place, like the nuclear reactor. Most stuff in Gaza that was fixed in place has been destroyed already.
dlubarov 1y ago
A few thoughts, - We don't really know the civilian casualty ratio for Gaza, but in seems somewhere in the normal range for urban wars (e.g. based on some losses Hamas admitted early in the conflict). The Iran strikes also harmed civilians, e.g. from a collapsed building in Nobonyad Square. If Israel had to repeat things 10,000x, we might have seen many collapsed buildings and it might start to resemble Gaza. - Intelligence gathering methods that work for a few high-profile targets might not scale to a war against tens of thousands of combatants. - Israel had the element of surprise against Iran, so the relevant targets were mostly not in bunkers/tunnels. They never did against Hamas.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
  Compare it to the 2022 Ukraine war. For more than a year almost all the fighting happened in densely populated areas, with many such shorter phases before and since. And Soviet-stock bombs just aren't as precise and unguided rocket artillery even more so. Yet after more than 3 years the number of civilian deaths and injured COMBINED just barely surpassed 50k recently.
  - idiomat9000 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - bartoszcki 1y ago
      13,883 civilians died in Ukraine as a result of Russian invasion between 24 Feb. 2022 and 31 July 2025 according to United Nations. It's really easy to Google it.
      - tguvot 1y ago
        On 11 April, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko stated that over 10,000 civilians had died in the Russian siege of Mariupol.[323] On 12 April, city officials reported that up to 20,000 civilians had been killed.[323] (this is 1 month into siege) On the same day, the Mayor of the city reported that about 21,000 civilians had been killed.[324] An updated Ukrainian death toll the following month put the number of civilians killed at at least 22,000.[325] On August 29, President of Mariupol Television, volunteer and civil activist Mykola Osychenko said to Dnipro TV that, according to the insider information, 87,000 deaths have been currently documented in morgues in Mariupol. Besides, 26,750 bodies are buried in mass graves, and many more are buried in the yards of the apartment blocks and private houses, or still under the rubble.[326] In early November, Ukraine stated that at least 25,000 civilians had been killed in Mariupol.[46][47] In late December, based on the discovery of 10,300 new mass graves, the Associated Press estimated that the true death toll may be up to three times that figure.[327] The Uppsala Conflict Data Program estimates of the total death toll resulting from the siege range from 27,000 to 88,000 fatalities, most of them civilians.[49] just to put things into perspective, this siege lasted less than 3 months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol
        DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
        If you had quoted but one more sentence by accident, you might have included the study that counted individual graves in and around Mariupol: "According to a 2023 study by Human Rights Watch and two other organizations, there were at least 8,034 excess deaths in Mariupol between March 2022 and February 2023."
cmurf 1y ago
[flagged]
- blks 1y ago
  Interesting way of shifting blame of creating thousands of corpses from military and political leadership to “international community”.
- bjoli 1y ago
  The tunnels are on a depth of 18-25 meters. Apart from the 2000lb bombs, there is nothing that will destroy a reinforced tunnel that deep. If even that. It will however destroy sewage and water infrastructure. One of those bunker busters will also do immense damage to surrounding structures. Gaza is one of the more densely populated areas on earth. You don't use 2000lb bombs without causing a lot of death and damage outside of the thing you a re targeting. Not only that, every time hospital attacks were justified bt "Hamas underground conplexes" the evidence has been lacklustre or even completely absent. They demolished the only specialist cancer hospital in Gaza claiming it was used as a command central for Hamas. But still no evidence has been provided. The only thing we DO know is that the IDF had used the hospital as a base before denolishibg it. While I don't doubt that there are examples of Hamas using civilian infrastructure (and this v.civilians) as shields, the Israeli usage of the term is a poor excuse for indescriminate bombing of apartment buildings, schools and hospitals.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- bartoszcki 1y ago
  Sure it would be best to build the tunnels away from civilian infrastructure but there's barely any away-from-civilian-infrastructure places in the Gaza Strip. What would be even better, IMHO, is if Israel just stopped murdering Gazans.
omnimus 1y ago
If you look at the NY Times video shared above - the strikes are very precise. First they hit viewpoint/staircase favorited by journalists. Then 10min later they hit exactly the same spot with two separate strikes in a row. There aren't many other rational explanations than that this is intended? Targeting journalists and then their rescue parties… oof
justacomment1 1y ago
They have access through software companies who actually provide security. Almost all western companies depend on security solutions (ex: endpoint & SOC providers, that means every electronic device including IoTs has some tracking enabled) provided by Israel founded companies. And we all know Israel seems to be not following rules, even though these security companies have some restrictions on access to customers data, there is no one stopping them from accessing these data in the name of support. Many security companies depend on Israel based employees. And often these employees are drop outs from high rank military intelligence or some family member in a high rank military positions. So if a supply chain has US companies, they have access to the companies data. I am definitely guessing a lot. But the kind of intel they have makes me think they are illegally accessing these data somehow. If this is true, think twice before using second hand devices. You might be mistaken for someone and unnecessarily targeted. Note that you can’t basically avoid these companies. They codified using one of these companies in some US regulations. There are no alternatives between. Even though the companies themselves mention they are US based, most of critical technical stuff happens directly from Israel. There are basically no alternatives. They make rules, US follows.
- emchammer 1y ago
  Could you provide a reference for the Israeli company in US regulations?
  - justacomment2 1y ago
    Compliance is driven by federal and state data protection laws (like HIPAA for healthcare or CCPA in California), industry standards (like NIST and CMMC). All companies are bound to follow these standards which is expected. Like I mentioned these security companies identify themselves as US based, but all technical work is based in Israel. Like front office is US. All I am saying is I am suspecting information leaks out of offices in Israel. Again this is suspicion. One of the theories on why Israel has all the intel it needs. Some information access illegally using some backdoor. Backdoor could be as simple as direct access through an existing employee who might be linked to Israel military intel.
tsoukase 1y ago
Israel with the support of literally all of the West cannot cope with a bunch of poor muslims. I cannot understand it, outside of conspiracy. The same holds for any distant war between the USA and some medieval counties in the last 30 years. If I were in charge, I would obliterate the enemy with any means.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

by xyzal 1y ago

apexalpha 1y ago

In Iran they mostly blew up stuff that's fixed in place, like the nuclear reactor. Most stuff in Gaza that was fixed in place has been destroyed already.

dlubarov 1y ago

A few thoughts, - We don't really know the civilian casualty ratio for Gaza, but in seems somewhere in the normal range for urban wars (e.g. based on some losses Hamas admitted early in the conflict). The Iran strikes also harmed civilians, e.g. from a collapsed building in Nobonyad Square. If Israel had to repeat things 10,000x, we might have seen many collapsed buildings and it might start to resemble Gaza. - Intelligence gathering methods that work for a few high-profile targets might not scale to a war against tens of thousands of combatants. - Israel had the element of surprise against Iran, so the relevant targets were mostly not in bunkers/tunnels. They never did against Hamas.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
Compare it to the 2022 Ukraine war. For more than a year almost all the fighting happened in densely populated areas, with many such shorter phases before and since. And Soviet-stock bombs just aren't as precise and unguided rocket artillery even more so. Yet after more than 3 years the number of civilian deaths and injured COMBINED just barely surpassed 50k recently.
- idiomat9000 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bartoszcki 1y ago
    13,883 civilians died in Ukraine as a result of Russian invasion between 24 Feb. 2022 and 31 July 2025 according to United Nations. It's really easy to Google it.
    - tguvot 1y ago
      On 11 April, Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko stated that over 10,000 civilians had died in the Russian siege of Mariupol.[323] On 12 April, city officials reported that up to 20,000 civilians had been killed.[323] (this is 1 month into siege) On the same day, the Mayor of the city reported that about 21,000 civilians had been killed.[324] An updated Ukrainian death toll the following month put the number of civilians killed at at least 22,000.[325] On August 29, President of Mariupol Television, volunteer and civil activist Mykola Osychenko said to Dnipro TV that, according to the insider information, 87,000 deaths have been currently documented in morgues in Mariupol. Besides, 26,750 bodies are buried in mass graves, and many more are buried in the yards of the apartment blocks and private houses, or still under the rubble.[326] In early November, Ukraine stated that at least 25,000 civilians had been killed in Mariupol.[46][47] In late December, based on the discovery of 10,300 new mass graves, the Associated Press estimated that the true death toll may be up to three times that figure.[327] The Uppsala Conflict Data Program estimates of the total death toll resulting from the siege range from 27,000 to 88,000 fatalities, most of them civilians.[49] just to put things into perspective, this siege lasted less than 3 months https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol
      - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
        If you had quoted but one more sentence by accident, you might have included the study that counted individual graves in and around Mariupol: "According to a 2023 study by Human Rights Watch and two other organizations, there were at least 8,034 excess deaths in Mariupol between March 2022 and February 2023."

cmurf 1y ago

[flagged]

blks 1y ago
Interesting way of shifting blame of creating thousands of corpses from military and political leadership to “international community”.
bjoli 1y ago
The tunnels are on a depth of 18-25 meters. Apart from the 2000lb bombs, there is nothing that will destroy a reinforced tunnel that deep. If even that. It will however destroy sewage and water infrastructure. One of those bunker busters will also do immense damage to surrounding structures. Gaza is one of the more densely populated areas on earth. You don't use 2000lb bombs without causing a lot of death and damage outside of the thing you a re targeting. Not only that, every time hospital attacks were justified bt "Hamas underground conplexes" the evidence has been lacklustre or even completely absent. They demolished the only specialist cancer hospital in Gaza claiming it was used as a command central for Hamas. But still no evidence has been provided. The only thing we DO know is that the IDF had used the hospital as a base before denolishibg it. While I don't doubt that there are examples of Hamas using civilian infrastructure (and this v.civilians) as shields, the Israeli usage of the term is a poor excuse for indescriminate bombing of apartment buildings, schools and hospitals.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bartoszcki 1y ago
Sure it would be best to build the tunnels away from civilian infrastructure but there's barely any away-from-civilian-infrastructure places in the Gaza Strip. What would be even better, IMHO, is if Israel just stopped murdering Gazans.

omnimus 1y ago

If you look at the NY Times video shared above - the strikes are very precise. First they hit viewpoint/staircase favorited by journalists. Then 10min later they hit exactly the same spot with two separate strikes in a row. There aren't many other rational explanations than that this is intended? Targeting journalists and then their rescue parties… oof

justacomment1 1y ago

They have access through software companies who actually provide security. Almost all western companies depend on security solutions (ex: endpoint & SOC providers, that means every electronic device including IoTs has some tracking enabled) provided by Israel founded companies. And we all know Israel seems to be not following rules, even though these security companies have some restrictions on access to customers data, there is no one stopping them from accessing these data in the name of support. Many security companies depend on Israel based employees. And often these employees are drop outs from high rank military intelligence or some family member in a high rank military positions. So if a supply chain has US companies, they have access to the companies data. I am definitely guessing a lot. But the kind of intel they have makes me think they are illegally accessing these data somehow. If this is true, think twice before using second hand devices. You might be mistaken for someone and unnecessarily targeted. Note that you can’t basically avoid these companies. They codified using one of these companies in some US regulations. There are no alternatives between. Even though the companies themselves mention they are US based, most of critical technical stuff happens directly from Israel. There are basically no alternatives. They make rules, US follows.

emchammer 1y ago
Could you provide a reference for the Israeli company in US regulations?
- justacomment2 1y ago
  Compliance is driven by federal and state data protection laws (like HIPAA for healthcare or CCPA in California), industry standards (like NIST and CMMC). All companies are bound to follow these standards which is expected. Like I mentioned these security companies identify themselves as US based, but all technical work is based in Israel. Like front office is US. All I am saying is I am suspecting information leaks out of offices in Israel. Again this is suspicion. One of the theories on why Israel has all the intel it needs. Some information access illegally using some backdoor. Backdoor could be as simple as direct access through an existing employee who might be linked to Israel military intel.

tsoukase 1y ago

Israel with the support of literally all of the West cannot cope with a bunch of poor muslims. I cannot understand it, outside of conspiracy. The same holds for any distant war between the USA and some medieval counties in the last 30 years. If I were in charge, I would obliterate the enemy with any means.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]