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You haven't noticed that the tyrannical agencies, aka "intelligence" agencies in the west no longer white and throw tantrums about "going blind" and "black hole

You haven't noticed that the tyrannical agencies, aka "intelligence" agencies in the west no longer white and throw tantrums about "going blind" and "black holes" etc. regarding Apple device encryption? I do not get the impression that they just forgot and stopped being traitors.

habinero 1y ago
I mean, you can just look it up instead of spreading conspiracies. Apple put in functionality that makes it impossible for them to unlock phones and added additional controls to make brute forcing infeasible. The fight was fought, they had it out in court, and it's done. If that wasn't true, literally all iPhones would be backdoored by the Russians and Chinese lol. Law enforcement is utterly incompetent when it comes to technology, you think they wouldn't immediately leak keys or access?
- dns_snek 1y ago
  I regret to inform you that the latest leaked Cellebrite support matrix [1] (from summer 2024) showed that all iOS devices on then-current iOS versions could be forcibly unlocked by law enforcement in AFU state (After First Unlock, following a reboot) using their software. The only devices that successfully resisted their attempts were Google Pixels running GrapheneOS. According to those documents Cellebrite hasn't had the ability to crack them open since 2022. There's an updated matrix for Android from February [2] which indicates that this hasn't changed on the Android side. [1] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14344-cellebrite-premium-july-2024-documentation https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14344-cellebrite-premium-ju... [2] https://osservatorionessuno.org/blog/2025/03/a-deep-dive-into-cellebrite-android-support-as-of-february-2025/ https://osservatorionessuno.org/blog/2025/03/a-deep-dive-int...
  - habinero 1y ago
    Yeah, I know. It requires expensive 0-days, which are rare and very much not what the other guy was implying, which is "Apple unlocks things for LEO". Both Google and Apple have world-class security teams, it's not surprising that it's that difficult.
    - dns_snek 1y ago
      We don't know what Apple does or doesn't do. They might not be able to unlock iPhones in their normal state, but what stops Apple from instructing your device to silently install a specially crafted update which makes that possible, prior to your arrest? I don't think that there is anything stopping them. You also said "[...] and added additional controls to make brute forcing infeasible." which isn't true as demonstrated by Cellebrite's capabilities. They can take the latest iPhone running the latest iOS and unlock it for you for a price (allegedly only with a warrant which law enforcement can always get). > If that wasn't true, literally all iPhones would be backdoored by the Russians and Chinese lol. This comparison also doesn't hold up because "Russians and Chinese" don't have physical access to our devices (seemingly required for most of these exploits) while law enforcement who arrested you does, and they can easily ship your device to Cellebrite's lab if need be.
- const_cast 1y ago
  None of that matters if the government just asks Apple to put out a targeted update and break encryption or leak the keys. You're still relying on blind faith in good actions.
  - habinero 1y ago
    As I said, the government did ask them to do that. Apple refused and then rearchitected their hardware so they couldn't even if they wanted to. And no, Apple bakes in immutable encryption during chip fabrication. They literally cannot update it. https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-for-iphone-and-ipad-devices-secb3000f149/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-for-ip... There's no blind faith involved. Apple has one of the best security teams in the world. If they decided to punch a hole in their flagship product security, I am very certain at least one engineer would speak up about it.
- hopelite 1y ago
  So Pegasus and others that aare not public are not a thing because it was dealt with in court? And no, there are things that are not shared with law enforcement for that very reason.
  - habinero 1y ago
    I don't think spyware sold by ex-Mossad that relies on expensive and easily burned 0-days count as "Apple rolls over for LEO" lol

habinero 1y ago

I mean, you can just look it up instead of spreading conspiracies. Apple put in functionality that makes it impossible for them to unlock phones and added additional controls to make brute forcing infeasible. The fight was fought, they had it out in court, and it's done. If that wasn't true, literally all iPhones would be backdoored by the Russians and Chinese lol. Law enforcement is utterly incompetent when it comes to technology, you think they wouldn't immediately leak keys or access?

dns_snek 1y ago
I regret to inform you that the latest leaked Cellebrite support matrix [1] (from summer 2024) showed that all iOS devices on then-current iOS versions could be forcibly unlocked by law enforcement in AFU state (After First Unlock, following a reboot) using their software. The only devices that successfully resisted their attempts were Google Pixels running GrapheneOS. According to those documents Cellebrite hasn't had the ability to crack them open since 2022. There's an updated matrix for Android from February [2] which indicates that this hasn't changed on the Android side. [1] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14344-cellebrite-premium-july-2024-documentation https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14344-cellebrite-premium-ju... [2] https://osservatorionessuno.org/blog/2025/03/a-deep-dive-into-cellebrite-android-support-as-of-february-2025/ https://osservatorionessuno.org/blog/2025/03/a-deep-dive-int...
- habinero 1y ago
  Yeah, I know. It requires expensive 0-days, which are rare and very much not what the other guy was implying, which is "Apple unlocks things for LEO". Both Google and Apple have world-class security teams, it's not surprising that it's that difficult.
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    We don't know what Apple does or doesn't do. They might not be able to unlock iPhones in their normal state, but what stops Apple from instructing your device to silently install a specially crafted update which makes that possible, prior to your arrest? I don't think that there is anything stopping them. You also said "[...] and added additional controls to make brute forcing infeasible." which isn't true as demonstrated by Cellebrite's capabilities. They can take the latest iPhone running the latest iOS and unlock it for you for a price (allegedly only with a warrant which law enforcement can always get). > If that wasn't true, literally all iPhones would be backdoored by the Russians and Chinese lol. This comparison also doesn't hold up because "Russians and Chinese" don't have physical access to our devices (seemingly required for most of these exploits) while law enforcement who arrested you does, and they can easily ship your device to Cellebrite's lab if need be.
const_cast 1y ago
None of that matters if the government just asks Apple to put out a targeted update and break encryption or leak the keys. You're still relying on blind faith in good actions.
- habinero 1y ago
  As I said, the government did ask them to do that. Apple refused and then rearchitected their hardware so they couldn't even if they wanted to. And no, Apple bakes in immutable encryption during chip fabrication. They literally cannot update it. https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-for-iphone-and-ipad-devices-secb3000f149/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-for-ip... There's no blind faith involved. Apple has one of the best security teams in the world. If they decided to punch a hole in their flagship product security, I am very certain at least one engineer would speak up about it.
hopelite 1y ago
So Pegasus and others that aare not public are not a thing because it was dealt with in court? And no, there are things that are not shared with law enforcement for that very reason.
- habinero 1y ago
  I don't think spyware sold by ex-Mossad that relies on expensive and easily burned 0-days count as "Apple rolls over for LEO" lol