4 ms·

I believe 'meindnoch was being sarcastic.

markburns 1y ago
I'd love to know why this happens so much. There's enough people in both groups that do spot it and don't spot it. I don't think I've ever felt the need for a sarcasm marker when I've seen one. Yet without it, it seems there will always be people taking things literally. It doesn't feel like something where people gradually pick up on it either over the years, it just feels like sarcasm is either redundantly pointed out for those who get it or it is guaranteed to get a literal interpretation response. Maybe it's because the literal interpretation of sarcasm is almost always so wrong that it inspires people to comment much more. So we just can't get away from this inefficient encoding/communication pattern. But then again, maybe I'm just often assuming people mean things that sound so wrong to me as sarcasm, so perhaps there are a lot of people out there honestly saying the opposite to what I think they are saying as a joke.
- jjj123 1y ago
  The /s thing is the most surefire way to make whatever joke you’re making not funny at all, so I say go ahead and be sarcastic even if not everyone gets it. And yeah, to your point about the literal interpretation of sarcasm being so absurd people want to correct it, I think you’re right. HN is a particularly pedantic corner of the internet, many of us like to be “right” for whatever reason.
  - delecti 1y ago
    A lot of us are also autistic, and I suspect there's a sizable overlap with the people who like to be right. Though as someone in that overlap, it's less "I want to be the one who brings correctness" and more "I want discussions to only contain accurate facts". But that aside, it is just simply the case that there are a lot of reasons why sarcasm can fail to land. So you just have to decide whether to risk ruining your joke with a tone indicator, or risk your joke failing to land and someone "correcting" you.
- mindslight 1y ago
  Part of the problem is that sarcasm relies heavily on shared group values (common wisdom), to make it clear that a given statement is meant in the opposite sense. Our shared group values have been fragmented pretty hard (eg half the country has thrown away conservative American values in favor of open strong-man fascism). The icing on top is the tech-contrarianism that rejects common wisdom in favor of looking for an edge. It was innovative when done from the bottom up in a subculture, but it lands somewhere between tedious and horrific now that tech has taken over mainstream society.
  - skissane 1y ago
    > Part of the problem is that sarcasm relies heavily on shared group values (common wisdom), to make it clear that a given statement is meant in the opposite sense. Our shared group values have been fragmented pretty hard (eg half the country has thrown away conservative American values Apart from that, it is also true that a lot of people here aren't Americans (hello from Australia). I know this is a US-hosted forum, but it is interesting to observe the divide between Americans who speak as if everyone else here is an American (e.g. "half the country") and those who realise many of us aren't
    - mindslight 1y ago
      Yeah, because nobody has ever posted a bare comment here about drop bears or how "the front fell off". But you're overstating it as a "divide" - I'm in both of your camps. I spoke with a USian context because yes, this site is indeed US-centric. The surveillance industry is primarily a creation of US culture, and is subject to US politics. And as much as I wish this weren't the case (even as a USian), it is, which is why you're in this topic. So I don't see that it's unreasonable for there to be a bit more to unpack coming from a different native context. But as to your comment applying to my actual point - yes, in addition to "fraying" culture in the middle, we're also expanding it at the edges to include many more people. Although frankly on the topic of sarcasm I feel it's my fellow USians who are really falling short these days.
      - skissane 1y ago
- xdfgh1112 1y ago
  HN has plenty of neurodivergent people and not picking up on sarcasm (especially without any voice data) is an autistic trait. There is also a cultural element. Countries like the UK are used to deadpan where sarcasm is delivered in the same tone as normal, so thinking is required. In Japan the majority of things are taken literally.

I'd love to know why this happens so much. There's enough people in both groups that do spot it and don't spot it. I don't think I've ever felt the need for a sarcasm marker when I've seen one. Yet without it, it seems there will always be people taking things literally. It doesn't feel like something where people gradually pick up on it either over the years, it just feels like sarcasm is either redundantly pointed out for those who get it or it is guaranteed to get a literal interpretation response. Maybe it's because the literal interpretation of sarcasm is almost always so wrong that it inspires people to comment much more. So we just can't get away from this inefficient encoding/communication pattern. But then again, maybe I'm just often assuming people mean things that sound so wrong to me as sarcasm, so perhaps there are a lot of people out there honestly saying the opposite to what I think they are saying as a joke.

jjj123 1y ago
The /s thing is the most surefire way to make whatever joke you’re making not funny at all, so I say go ahead and be sarcastic even if not everyone gets it. And yeah, to your point about the literal interpretation of sarcasm being so absurd people want to correct it, I think you’re right. HN is a particularly pedantic corner of the internet, many of us like to be “right” for whatever reason.
- delecti 1y ago
  A lot of us are also autistic, and I suspect there's a sizable overlap with the people who like to be right. Though as someone in that overlap, it's less "I want to be the one who brings correctness" and more "I want discussions to only contain accurate facts". But that aside, it is just simply the case that there are a lot of reasons why sarcasm can fail to land. So you just have to decide whether to risk ruining your joke with a tone indicator, or risk your joke failing to land and someone "correcting" you.
mindslight 1y ago
Part of the problem is that sarcasm relies heavily on shared group values (common wisdom), to make it clear that a given statement is meant in the opposite sense. Our shared group values have been fragmented pretty hard (eg half the country has thrown away conservative American values in favor of open strong-man fascism). The icing on top is the tech-contrarianism that rejects common wisdom in favor of looking for an edge. It was innovative when done from the bottom up in a subculture, but it lands somewhere between tedious and horrific now that tech has taken over mainstream society.
- skissane 1y ago
  > Part of the problem is that sarcasm relies heavily on shared group values (common wisdom), to make it clear that a given statement is meant in the opposite sense. Our shared group values have been fragmented pretty hard (eg half the country has thrown away conservative American values Apart from that, it is also true that a lot of people here aren't Americans (hello from Australia). I know this is a US-hosted forum, but it is interesting to observe the divide between Americans who speak as if everyone else here is an American (e.g. "half the country") and those who realise many of us aren't
  - mindslight 1y ago
    Yeah, because nobody has ever posted a bare comment here about drop bears or how "the front fell off". But you're overstating it as a "divide" - I'm in both of your camps. I spoke with a USian context because yes, this site is indeed US-centric. The surveillance industry is primarily a creation of US culture, and is subject to US politics. And as much as I wish this weren't the case (even as a USian), it is, which is why you're in this topic. So I don't see that it's unreasonable for there to be a bit more to unpack coming from a different native context. But as to your comment applying to my actual point - yes, in addition to "fraying" culture in the middle, we're also expanding it at the edges to include many more people. Although frankly on the topic of sarcasm I feel it's my fellow USians who are really falling short these days.
    - skissane 1y ago
xdfgh1112 1y ago
HN has plenty of neurodivergent people and not picking up on sarcasm (especially without any voice data) is an autistic trait. There is also a cultural element. Countries like the UK are used to deadpan where sarcasm is delivered in the same tone as normal, so thinking is required. In Japan the majority of things are taken literally.