27 ms·

Google Will Require Developer Verification

16 points by Ms-J 1y ago

Ms-J 1y ago
Talk about this with your family and friends. It is the most important tech issue we are facing today. "With developer verification in the form of sending in a scan of your government ID now mandatory, along with providing your contact information."
- palata 1y ago
  > It is the most important tech issue we are facing today. How so? I cannot anonymously get a bank account, I cannot anonymously get a phone number, I cannot anonymously get a domain name. I don't see how terrible it is to have to be verified to distribute your app. Noting that if you worry about banned apps like NewPipe, then first I don't know that Google will prevent its sideloading, and anyway NewPipe is open source so you can build and install it yourself.
  - wosined 1y ago
    > I cannot anonymously get a bank account, I cannot anonymously get a phone number, I cannot anonymously get a domain name. I don't see how terrible it is to have to be verified to distribute your app. All of those are a privacy nightmare as well. Now we add another. The total amount of freedom has diminished.
    - palata 1y ago
      Do you also think that having a police department is a nightmare because it diminishes the total amount of freedom?
      - wosined 1y ago
        Depends on the extent of policing.
rawling 1y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 2300 comments' worth of discussion from last week
palata 1y ago
I genuinely don't really get it. If someone tells me "here is an app I wrote, it is not open source, I won't tell you who I am and you need to sideload it", I most definitely won't install it. Who would do that? If it is open source, then I can build and install it myself. If the developer gets verified, then I can sideload it. I totally agree that device manufacturers should be forced by law to make it possible to run an alternative OS like GrapheneOS, but this topic gets virtually no attention. Whereas everybody seems very pissed about the sideloading story.
- stop50 1y ago
  Then Apple and google will start a campaign to kill it within a second.
  - palata 1y ago
    Not sure what your point is. Are you saying that Google should be forced by law to allow unverified developers on their own OS, but that it would not be possible to have a law making it mandatory to allow alternative OSes? I mean if they are above the law, they are above the law. No need to discuss anything. If they are not, then we can discuss what's best for the users. And it is my opinion that allowing alternative OSes is better for the users than allowing sideloading of unverified apps.
- bigbadfeline 1y ago
  > If it is open source, then I can build and install it myself. If the developer gets verified, then I can sideload it. Although that might be true for you it's very much false for 99% of Android's user base. Android is a nightmare to compile for, I love to compile on linux/win/bsd but I recall only once or twice compiling Android projects and would do everything to avoid that mess in the future. For all intents and purposes, we should accept that Android users must be able to install pre-compiled open source software. In sane operating environments there's the option of reproducible builds, which guarantee that a particular binary comes from a particular source, if Google cared about Android users, they would make that available for Android too. > I totally agree that device manufacturers should be forced by law to make it possible to run an alternative OS like GrapheneOS. There's some incongruity here - if users could install any other OS on their phones we wouldn't be having this conversation because 1. nobody would care about side-loading being unavailable and 2. Google would never limit it in the first place due to competitive forces. In other words, installing other OSes is a high-value goal and it makes sense to use every occasion to put pressure on Google to move in that direction - and there is no better occasion than pushing for open sideloading. It should be abundantly clear that if you can't get open sideloading you will never get open OS install.

16 points by Ms-J 1y ago

Ms-J 1y ago

Talk about this with your family and friends. It is the most important tech issue we are facing today. "With developer verification in the form of sending in a scan of your government ID now mandatory, along with providing your contact information."

palata 1y ago
> It is the most important tech issue we are facing today. How so? I cannot anonymously get a bank account, I cannot anonymously get a phone number, I cannot anonymously get a domain name. I don't see how terrible it is to have to be verified to distribute your app. Noting that if you worry about banned apps like NewPipe, then first I don't know that Google will prevent its sideloading, and anyway NewPipe is open source so you can build and install it yourself.
- wosined 1y ago
  > I cannot anonymously get a bank account, I cannot anonymously get a phone number, I cannot anonymously get a domain name. I don't see how terrible it is to have to be verified to distribute your app. All of those are a privacy nightmare as well. Now we add another. The total amount of freedom has diminished.
  - palata 1y ago
    Do you also think that having a police department is a nightmare because it diminishes the total amount of freedom?
    - wosined 1y ago
      Depends on the extent of policing.

rawling 1y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 2300 comments' worth of discussion from last week

palata 1y ago

I genuinely don't really get it. If someone tells me "here is an app I wrote, it is not open source, I won't tell you who I am and you need to sideload it", I most definitely won't install it. Who would do that? If it is open source, then I can build and install it myself. If the developer gets verified, then I can sideload it. I totally agree that device manufacturers should be forced by law to make it possible to run an alternative OS like GrapheneOS, but this topic gets virtually no attention. Whereas everybody seems very pissed about the sideloading story.

stop50 1y ago
Then Apple and google will start a campaign to kill it within a second.
- palata 1y ago
  Not sure what your point is. Are you saying that Google should be forced by law to allow unverified developers on their own OS, but that it would not be possible to have a law making it mandatory to allow alternative OSes? I mean if they are above the law, they are above the law. No need to discuss anything. If they are not, then we can discuss what's best for the users. And it is my opinion that allowing alternative OSes is better for the users than allowing sideloading of unverified apps.
bigbadfeline 1y ago
> If it is open source, then I can build and install it myself. If the developer gets verified, then I can sideload it. Although that might be true for you it's very much false for 99% of Android's user base. Android is a nightmare to compile for, I love to compile on linux/win/bsd but I recall only once or twice compiling Android projects and would do everything to avoid that mess in the future. For all intents and purposes, we should accept that Android users must be able to install pre-compiled open source software. In sane operating environments there's the option of reproducible builds, which guarantee that a particular binary comes from a particular source, if Google cared about Android users, they would make that available for Android too. > I totally agree that device manufacturers should be forced by law to make it possible to run an alternative OS like GrapheneOS. There's some incongruity here - if users could install any other OS on their phones we wouldn't be having this conversation because 1. nobody would care about side-loading being unavailable and 2. Google would never limit it in the first place due to competitive forces. In other words, installing other OSes is a high-value goal and it makes sense to use every occasion to put pressure on Google to move in that direction - and there is no better occasion than pushing for open sideloading. It should be abundantly clear that if you can't get open sideloading you will never get open OS install.