4 ms·

> Nor do I understand how Europe still buys gas from Russia Because the alternative isn't buying gas from somewhere else, it's not buying the gas. This turns a

> Nor do I understand how Europe still buys gas from Russia Because the alternative isn't buying gas from somewhere else, it's not buying the gas. This turns a foreign war into a major major domestic issue.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
contrarian1234 1y ago
I'd be curious to hear what Europeans actually think of it on the ground. Is it not a major domestic issue that your governments are funding a genocidal regime? Do people just kinda pretend it's not happening b/c it's inconvenient to talk about? Just kinda blush, say sorry, and carry on? I don't really understand the psychology of it. Are people for instance actively trying to use less gas in their personal lives?
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  edited, not feeding the troll
  - jeltz 1y ago
    Look at the name, he is likely trolling people.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      you're right
- poszlem 1y ago
  Most Europeans see it like watching someone drown, they want to help, but not at the cost of drowning themselves in the process.
  - baal80spam 1y ago
    I mean, the compassion ends when your bills increase twofold - it's that simple.
- CheeseFromLidl 1y ago
  I don’t speak for others, probably a minority opinion. I vividly remember the protests against the switch to Russian oil and against the pipeline. There’s a saying here: if you burn your ass you sit on the blisters.
- pydry 1y ago
  [flagged]
- m4rtink 1y ago
  In Czech Republic upgraded our infra and stopped using Russian gas and oil. Might have something to do with Russia orchestrated terrorist attack agains Czech munition warehouses that killed two people in 2014[0]. Or the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968[1] - just because the local communist leaders happened to be a bit too much enlightened for their tastes. Just a few days ago I went past memorial plague for the girl killed in protests against the Soviet invasion in 1969[2][3] - forever 18 years old... There were lots of flowers, people still remember. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunitio... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czec... [2] https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu%C5%A1e_Muzik%C3%A1%C5%99ov%C3%A1 https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu%C5%A1e_Muzik%C3%A1%C5%9... [3] https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=profil-osobnosti&load=2286 https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=profil-osobnosti&...
- hackandthink 1y ago
  I see different degrees of genocide and support. I am generally against arms deliveries, especially to Israel and Russia. Sanctions should above all be effective. Russia is difficult to sanction especially if China and India do not play along. The energy sanctions hurt Germany more than Russia, so I don't support them. Specifically, I heat with gas in winter and try to reduce my consumption.
  - baybal2 1y ago
    [dead]
firesteelrain 1y ago
Can’t they just increase their imports from the US?
- poszlem 1y ago
  They can and they already do, LNG from the US is flowing in. But swapping dependence on Russia for dependence on the US isn’t the clearcut win people imagine. Washington is in the middle of its own trade war, and Europe is one of the targets. Pax Americana is over, and Europe is treated less as an ally than as a vassal. The US openly exploits Europe’s fear of Russia, turning a legitimate threat into a lever for domination. What Europe gets is dependency and vulnerability, while the US extracts obedience and profit. The irony is that the US slaps higher tariffs on most European countries than it does on Russia itself. As the old saying goes, "it may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal".
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Are you sure that is accurate? My research found that since the invasion, Russia’s MFN was revoked and Column 2 rates + import bans make US barriers on Russian goods much higher overall than on EU goods. 1. https://ofac.treasury.gov/media/930201/download https://ofac.treasury.gov/media/930201/download 2. https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-117publ110 https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-117publ110 3. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summary/russia-column-2-rates-duty https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summ... 4. https://media.bis.gov//about-bis/bis-leadership-and-offices/SIES/section-232-investigations/section-232-steel-aluminum https://media.bis.gov//about-bis/bis-leadership-and-offices/... 5. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/15/2022-05554/prohibiting-certain-imports-exports-and-new-investment-with-respect-to-continued-russian-federation https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/15/2022-05... 6. https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/1024 https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/1024 7. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-fact-sheet-enforcing-president-s-executive-orders-holding https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-fact... 8. https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2021/june/ustr-announces-joint-us-eu-cooperative-framework-large-civil-aircraft https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

contrarian1234 1y ago

I'd be curious to hear what Europeans actually think of it on the ground. Is it not a major domestic issue that your governments are funding a genocidal regime? Do people just kinda pretend it's not happening b/c it's inconvenient to talk about? Just kinda blush, say sorry, and carry on? I don't really understand the psychology of it. Are people for instance actively trying to use less gas in their personal lives?

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
edited, not feeding the troll
- jeltz 1y ago
  Look at the name, he is likely trolling people.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    you're right
poszlem 1y ago
Most Europeans see it like watching someone drown, they want to help, but not at the cost of drowning themselves in the process.
- baal80spam 1y ago
  I mean, the compassion ends when your bills increase twofold - it's that simple.
CheeseFromLidl 1y ago
I don’t speak for others, probably a minority opinion. I vividly remember the protests against the switch to Russian oil and against the pipeline. There’s a saying here: if you burn your ass you sit on the blisters.
pydry 1y ago
[flagged]
m4rtink 1y ago
In Czech Republic upgraded our infra and stopped using Russian gas and oil. Might have something to do with Russia orchestrated terrorist attack agains Czech munition warehouses that killed two people in 2014[0]. Or the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968[1] - just because the local communist leaders happened to be a bit too much enlightened for their tastes. Just a few days ago I went past memorial plague for the girl killed in protests against the Soviet invasion in 1969[2][3] - forever 18 years old... There were lots of flowers, people still remember. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunitio... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czec... [2] https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu%C5%A1e_Muzik%C3%A1%C5%99ov%C3%A1 https://cs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danu%C5%A1e_Muzik%C3%A1%C5%9... [3] https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=profil-osobnosti&load=2286 https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=profil-osobnosti&...
hackandthink 1y ago
I see different degrees of genocide and support. I am generally against arms deliveries, especially to Israel and Russia. Sanctions should above all be effective. Russia is difficult to sanction especially if China and India do not play along. The energy sanctions hurt Germany more than Russia, so I don't support them. Specifically, I heat with gas in winter and try to reduce my consumption.
- baybal2 1y ago
  [dead]

firesteelrain 1y ago

Can’t they just increase their imports from the US?

poszlem 1y ago
They can and they already do, LNG from the US is flowing in. But swapping dependence on Russia for dependence on the US isn’t the clearcut win people imagine. Washington is in the middle of its own trade war, and Europe is one of the targets. Pax Americana is over, and Europe is treated less as an ally than as a vassal. The US openly exploits Europe’s fear of Russia, turning a legitimate threat into a lever for domination. What Europe gets is dependency and vulnerability, while the US extracts obedience and profit. The irony is that the US slaps higher tariffs on most European countries than it does on Russia itself. As the old saying goes, "it may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal".
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  Are you sure that is accurate? My research found that since the invasion, Russia’s MFN was revoked and Column 2 rates + import bans make US barriers on Russian goods much higher overall than on EU goods. 1. https://ofac.treasury.gov/media/930201/download https://ofac.treasury.gov/media/930201/download 2. https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-117publ110 https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-117publ110 3. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summary/russia-column-2-rates-duty https://www.cbp.gov/trade/programs-administration/entry-summ... 4. https://media.bis.gov//about-bis/bis-leadership-and-offices/SIES/section-232-investigations/section-232-steel-aluminum https://media.bis.gov//about-bis/bis-leadership-and-offices/... 5. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/15/2022-05554/prohibiting-certain-imports-exports-and-new-investment-with-respect-to-continued-russian-federation https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/15/2022-05... 6. https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/1024 https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/1024 7. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-fact-sheet-enforcing-president-s-executive-orders-holding https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-fact... 8. https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2021/june/ustr-announces-joint-us-eu-cooperative-framework-large-civil-aircraft https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-...