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It feels sometimes that compiler backend devs haven't quite registered the implications of the TDPE paper. As far as I can tell it gets pareto improvements far

It feels sometimes that compiler backend devs haven't quite registered the implications of the TDPE paper. As far as I can tell it gets pareto improvements far above LLVM, Cranelift, and any WebAssembly backend out there. You'd expect there to be a rush to either adopt their techniques or at least find arguments why they wouldn't work for generalist use cases, but instead it feels like maintainers of the above project have absolutely no curiosity about it.

webdevver 1y ago
whats "the TDPE paper"?
- webdevver 1y ago
  found it https://docs.tpde.org/ https://docs.tpde.org/ https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.22610 https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.22610
gbbcf 1y ago
Care to enlighten us? Maybe it's just you overestimating the implications
pertymcpert 1y ago
There's no free lunch. I don't know where you're getting this "Pareto improvements" thing from because it's a much more constrained codegen framework than LLVM's backend. It supports a much smaller subset, and real world code built by LLVM will use a lot of features like vectors even at -O0 for things like intrinsics. There's a maintenance cost to having a completely separate path for -O0.
pjmlp 1y ago
Most contributions are driven by university students papers that somehow managed to get merged into LLVM, there is hardly a product manager driving its roadmap, thus naturally not everything gets the same attention span.
- almostgotcaught 1y ago
  I see you comment here all the time about LLVM and I'm pretty sure you have no idea how LLVM works (technically or organizationally). Yes there's no roadmap but it's flat out wrong that most contributions are from university students because hardly any contributions are from university students. It's actually an issue because we should be more supportive of student contributors! You can literally look at the contributors on GitHub and see that probably the top 100 are professionals contributing as part of their dayjob: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/graphs/contributors https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/graphs/contributors
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    I know enough of what is public information, scattered around LLVM website, public forums, published papers, podcast interviews, LLVM meetings recordings and slides. Thanks for pointing out that is a pile of useless knowledge, maybe I should waste my time reading other stuff more appropriate.
    - saagarjha 1y ago
      None of that stuff points to LLVM being driven by university students. Most of that content is written directly by people paid to work on the project by their employer.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Yet most presentations at LLVM Meetings show otherwise, on the list of authors or collaborators. Should we go through an agenda?
        saagarjha 1y ago
        Sure
        almostgotcaught 1y ago
        Hmm I wonder though if the most canonical was to see who contributes to LLVM is the git blame or the list of presenters at a tenuously related dev conf. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

webdevver 1y ago

whats "the TDPE paper"?

webdevver 1y ago
found it https://docs.tpde.org/ https://docs.tpde.org/ https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.22610 https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.22610

gbbcf 1y ago

Care to enlighten us? Maybe it's just you overestimating the implications

pertymcpert 1y ago

There's no free lunch. I don't know where you're getting this "Pareto improvements" thing from because it's a much more constrained codegen framework than LLVM's backend. It supports a much smaller subset, and real world code built by LLVM will use a lot of features like vectors even at -O0 for things like intrinsics. There's a maintenance cost to having a completely separate path for -O0.

pjmlp 1y ago

Most contributions are driven by university students papers that somehow managed to get merged into LLVM, there is hardly a product manager driving its roadmap, thus naturally not everything gets the same attention span.

almostgotcaught 1y ago
I see you comment here all the time about LLVM and I'm pretty sure you have no idea how LLVM works (technically or organizationally). Yes there's no roadmap but it's flat out wrong that most contributions are from university students because hardly any contributions are from university students. It's actually an issue because we should be more supportive of student contributors! You can literally look at the contributors on GitHub and see that probably the top 100 are professionals contributing as part of their dayjob: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/graphs/contributors https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/graphs/contributors
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I know enough of what is public information, scattered around LLVM website, public forums, published papers, podcast interviews, LLVM meetings recordings and slides. Thanks for pointing out that is a pile of useless knowledge, maybe I should waste my time reading other stuff more appropriate.
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    None of that stuff points to LLVM being driven by university students. Most of that content is written directly by people paid to work on the project by their employer.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Yet most presentations at LLVM Meetings show otherwise, on the list of authors or collaborators. Should we go through an agenda?
      - saagarjha 1y ago
        Sure
      - almostgotcaught 1y ago
        Hmm I wonder though if the most canonical was to see who contributes to LLVM is the git blame or the list of presenters at a tenuously related dev conf. Hmmmmmmmmmm.