6 ms·

We have an incredible capacity for denial and self-deception. For years, I would periodically drop into severe depression; I would stop sleeping, stop eating, s

by huggah 14y ago

We have an incredible capacity for denial and self-deception. For years, I would periodically drop into severe depression; I would stop sleeping, stop eating, stop answering my phone or email. I wouldn't leave my room for weeks on end; on a few occasions I was so successfully reclusive that people worried that I disappeared or died called the police to investigate. A few times I almost did die; I think the biggest reason I never committed suicide was that I didn't have the willpower for even that. Years. Call it 6, with bouts every 8 months. One semester of 'A's, one semester of 'F's. Of course this caused me to fail classes and lost me friends, opportunities and respect. But every time I recovered I thought to myself "Wow, that was awful. Glad I'll never do that again!" I had to lose my fiancée and my funding in grad school before I finally accepted to the fact that this might be a problem. That there might be a cause other than being lazy. Because, you know, laziness makes people curl up in an empty bathtub and cry for 24 hours. That's normal, right? Thanks to Wil for posting this. It's important to reach out to sufferers as well as their friends and family. It takes a lot to recognize when you or someone you know has a problem, even when in retrospect it's blindingly obvious.

luriel 14y ago
Knowing you "have a problem" doesn't mean you or anyone understands the problem or what to do about it. And even if you know what to do, doesn't mean you can do it either, the psychological, social or just practical barriers can be impossible to climb. Medication has a statistical significant effect, but is often marginal at best, and most of the effect is placebo. And this assumes an accurate diagnosis, and don't count on that, I have had the head of psychiatric care of a major European capital say to me that the science of psychiatric diagnosis is basically worthless, I wouldn't go that far (the split between research and academia and practice is also a huge problem), but is nowhere as simple as some like to make it seem. People and lives are often much more complex than that and much more significant factors. Doctors can also do much more harm than good, locking people up in horribly depressing kafkian institutions because they are suicidal is one of the most insane things I have seen in my life. Imagine what it feels like being locked up against your will, treated almost like an animal, when you have done nothing to harm anyone, and being told it is "for your own good".
- huggah 14y ago
  True. It took a few years between accepting that I had a problem and finding a solution to it. For many people, it takes a lot longer; some never "solve" their problem at all. But knowing is a necessary first step, and for me, it was the hardest and the one that would have benefited most from posts like this.
  - donniezazen 14y ago
    What was your solution, if you don't mind sharing?
    - huggah 14y ago
      My only hesitation about sharing is that I don't want people to extrapolate from what worked for me to expect it to work on themselves. So don't. With that disclaimer, I'll say that I went on several regimens of drugs for a few years. They had serious side effects, didn't work or worked only for a few months. They did keep me afloat long enough to get the rest of my life together. Stephen Ilardi's "The Depression Cure" is 80% insipid self-help; I'm surprised I didn't throw it away in disgust. The remaining 20% (which is mostly the table of contents) had a profoundly positive effect. It did more good than all the drugs I'd taken combined; but I had to take it seriously and have the willpower to make changes. In the end, CBT techniques got me to the point where I instinctively revise my thought patterns. Combined with a lifestyle that includes a lot more exercise, time outside, and physical contact with people I care about, I have been un-medicated for almost three years and haven't had a single major depressive episode.
      - donniezazen 14y ago
        Do you think pushing yourself to do what you think is right is a right course of action or part of solution to your depression?
        huggah 14y ago
        I don't understand your question. Are you asking whether I think choosing to behave ethically is part of my solution to depression? What do you mean by "do what you think is right"?
btilly 14y ago
I think the biggest reason I never committed suicide was that I didn't have the willpower for even that. One of the most dangerous periods for depressed people is shortly after they start treatment. They are still depressed, but suddenly have the energy to commit suicide, and a certain fraction of them do. My wife lost a cousin that way. :-(
- grueful 14y ago
  They're often on the tail of years of anxiety and depression, plus environmental stressors which aren't going to disappear through talking or medication. Sometimes you take a pill and the problem is solved. But often, it's a matter of a struggle for better, not fixed. Or a decision between the illness and the side effects of continuous medication. But ignoring it is a terrible option.
- navs 14y ago
  Also consider that many SSRIs actually list suicidal urges as a side effect. In my transition from Celexa to Prozac to Effexor, I've found that transitioning period to be particularly bad. Not to go into too much detail but I've done things of late I never did before and my doctor has said it's likely my change in medication. They say things need to be at their worst before they can get better. That's my mantra.
  - mnicole 14y ago
    Effexor literally made me think and act in ways I never had before. There's the disassociative feeling you get from depression, and then there's what Effexor did; effectively making me a ticking time-bomb with an insanely vivid, active (and morbid) imagination. Really dark times, and coincidentally a few months after I'd quit it, Time magazine had a cover article about the rise of [teen] suicides because of it.
    - navs 14y ago
      Can I ask what you switched to after dropping Effexor? My email is listed in my profile if you wish to answer privately.
diffeomorph 14y ago
I had the same problem. My depression had been latent since early HS but it really manifested when I began college, and my grades were horrible as a result despite having been a model student until then(well, until the last year of HS; college only hastened its development). I'm 29 and I've since gotten treatment but the effect on my professional development has been incredibly damaging. It's less a stumble out of the gate than a foot shot. I know intellectually that I've achieved as much - or possibly more - than my typical peer because I've worked through my problems and traumas and come out the other end alive and healthy, but they're still the ones with the comparatively advanced careers, living in nicer cities, and taking care of their young families while I'm still working saw jobs in the midwest and living, alone, in a studio apartment. But I'm alive, and I'm able to finally live a normal life, which is priceless.
- msfd 14y ago
  I would say "Maybe". Maybe they have better lives, or maybe they are (or will be) depressed like you were. The point is, you don't know, so enjoy you live, I think you deserve it.
  - msfd 14y ago
    Cannot edit anymore, so what I wanted to say (I was not very clear) is : The lives they have is not necessarily as nice as you picture it, nor yours as bleak as you think. In the end, I would not really think too much (even if I know it's hard) about them. After all, they might had enormous advantage, or actually a shitty live, because everything is too perfect or maybe they struggled so much to be where they are and so, are exhausted intellectually and depressed. You achieved an incredible feat by controlling your depression, I'd be proud of it.
- eggdude 14y ago
  Comparing yourself to others is an easy way to think negatively and possibly even descend into depression. It's important to accept who you are and what got you there and not think that your life would be so much better "if only things had been different". Things weren't different. You were given the genes you were given from parents who you didn't choose and countless other variables influenced you to become depressed and then recover at the time you did. No need to feel bad about it. I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack. I'm in a similar position to you and I've found it incredibly rewarding to realize that it is useless to worry about the past and what could have happened.
chmike 14y ago
You could be bipolar with a hypo maniac phase. You should check this with experts.
- huggah 14y ago
  I was initially diagnosed with a Major Depressive Disorder; my first round of SSRIs sent me into a manic episode. That was enough to get me diagnosed with Bipolar II. I question whether that was an accurate diagnosis; my experience with bipolar medication was pretty awful, and with behavioral treatments (CBT and environmental changes) I seem to do okay without them, which is much more rare for people who suffer from Bipolar than for people who suffer from MDD.
  - chmike 14y ago
    I'm afraid the bipolar diagnostic is probably right. I would say the recurrence of the depression is a sign of that. Correlation with season variations is the most common, but not the rule. Medication efficiency and side effect are known to vary individually. In the end, the only thing that matters is that you find a treatment that helps you to feel and live better. I have heard lithium could help smooth the mood changes. Did you heard of that ? Unfortunately, some people have too bad side effects with it.
    - Buzaga 14y ago
      not even psychiatrists know about their diagnosis, since there's no scientific method at all there, just bullet point stories to try to match with the pacient... so I'd suggest not trying to diagnose people over the internet too
      - marklabedz 14y ago
        Not to mention the politics behind the DSM.
borplk 14y ago
I'm noticing some alarming similarities between your description and my current situation. Shit.
- huggah 14y ago
  Do something! Talk to someone; start with someone you trust (not necessarily a doctor). Catalog your history, list the duration and severity of every time you were depressed enough to impact your school, job, or social life. You're doing this with someone because this is serious trigger territory. If you're on the edge, then do this with a therapist. Don't try to diagnose yourself from this: the point is to let it sink in that you have an issue, and it's not going to get better unless you do something. Don't skip this step. Now that you're convinced, start hacking at the problem. I recommend http://www.amazon.com/The-Depression-Cure-Program-without/dp/0738213136 http://www.amazon.com/The-Depression-Cure-Program-without/dp...; but do your own research, talk to people, get better. Get better every day. You'll fail several times along the way; have people you can count on for help. Get better every year. Maybe it will be an easy, short road for you. Maybe it will be a life-long struggle. That's okay, just make sure you live long enough to find out; it will be worth it. There's only one thing you need to know: problems you ignore won't go away.

by huggah 14y ago

luriel 14y ago

Knowing you "have a problem" doesn't mean you or anyone understands the problem or what to do about it. And even if you know what to do, doesn't mean you can do it either, the psychological, social or just practical barriers can be impossible to climb. Medication has a statistical significant effect, but is often marginal at best, and most of the effect is placebo. And this assumes an accurate diagnosis, and don't count on that, I have had the head of psychiatric care of a major European capital say to me that the science of psychiatric diagnosis is basically worthless, I wouldn't go that far (the split between research and academia and practice is also a huge problem), but is nowhere as simple as some like to make it seem. People and lives are often much more complex than that and much more significant factors. Doctors can also do much more harm than good, locking people up in horribly depressing kafkian institutions because they are suicidal is one of the most insane things I have seen in my life. Imagine what it feels like being locked up against your will, treated almost like an animal, when you have done nothing to harm anyone, and being told it is "for your own good".

huggah 14y ago
True. It took a few years between accepting that I had a problem and finding a solution to it. For many people, it takes a lot longer; some never "solve" their problem at all. But knowing is a necessary first step, and for me, it was the hardest and the one that would have benefited most from posts like this.
- donniezazen 14y ago
  What was your solution, if you don't mind sharing?
  - huggah 14y ago
    My only hesitation about sharing is that I don't want people to extrapolate from what worked for me to expect it to work on themselves. So don't. With that disclaimer, I'll say that I went on several regimens of drugs for a few years. They had serious side effects, didn't work or worked only for a few months. They did keep me afloat long enough to get the rest of my life together. Stephen Ilardi's "The Depression Cure" is 80% insipid self-help; I'm surprised I didn't throw it away in disgust. The remaining 20% (which is mostly the table of contents) had a profoundly positive effect. It did more good than all the drugs I'd taken combined; but I had to take it seriously and have the willpower to make changes. In the end, CBT techniques got me to the point where I instinctively revise my thought patterns. Combined with a lifestyle that includes a lot more exercise, time outside, and physical contact with people I care about, I have been un-medicated for almost three years and haven't had a single major depressive episode.
    - donniezazen 14y ago
      Do you think pushing yourself to do what you think is right is a right course of action or part of solution to your depression?
      - huggah 14y ago
        I don't understand your question. Are you asking whether I think choosing to behave ethically is part of my solution to depression? What do you mean by "do what you think is right"?

btilly 14y ago

I think the biggest reason I never committed suicide was that I didn't have the willpower for even that. One of the most dangerous periods for depressed people is shortly after they start treatment. They are still depressed, but suddenly have the energy to commit suicide, and a certain fraction of them do. My wife lost a cousin that way. :-(

grueful 14y ago
They're often on the tail of years of anxiety and depression, plus environmental stressors which aren't going to disappear through talking or medication. Sometimes you take a pill and the problem is solved. But often, it's a matter of a struggle for better, not fixed. Or a decision between the illness and the side effects of continuous medication. But ignoring it is a terrible option.
navs 14y ago
Also consider that many SSRIs actually list suicidal urges as a side effect. In my transition from Celexa to Prozac to Effexor, I've found that transitioning period to be particularly bad. Not to go into too much detail but I've done things of late I never did before and my doctor has said it's likely my change in medication. They say things need to be at their worst before they can get better. That's my mantra.
- mnicole 14y ago
  Effexor literally made me think and act in ways I never had before. There's the disassociative feeling you get from depression, and then there's what Effexor did; effectively making me a ticking time-bomb with an insanely vivid, active (and morbid) imagination. Really dark times, and coincidentally a few months after I'd quit it, Time magazine had a cover article about the rise of [teen] suicides because of it.
  - navs 14y ago
    Can I ask what you switched to after dropping Effexor? My email is listed in my profile if you wish to answer privately.

diffeomorph 14y ago

I had the same problem. My depression had been latent since early HS but it really manifested when I began college, and my grades were horrible as a result despite having been a model student until then(well, until the last year of HS; college only hastened its development). I'm 29 and I've since gotten treatment but the effect on my professional development has been incredibly damaging. It's less a stumble out of the gate than a foot shot. I know intellectually that I've achieved as much - or possibly more - than my typical peer because I've worked through my problems and traumas and come out the other end alive and healthy, but they're still the ones with the comparatively advanced careers, living in nicer cities, and taking care of their young families while I'm still working saw jobs in the midwest and living, alone, in a studio apartment. But I'm alive, and I'm able to finally live a normal life, which is priceless.

msfd 14y ago
I would say "Maybe". Maybe they have better lives, or maybe they are (or will be) depressed like you were. The point is, you don't know, so enjoy you live, I think you deserve it.
- msfd 14y ago
  Cannot edit anymore, so what I wanted to say (I was not very clear) is : The lives they have is not necessarily as nice as you picture it, nor yours as bleak as you think. In the end, I would not really think too much (even if I know it's hard) about them. After all, they might had enormous advantage, or actually a shitty live, because everything is too perfect or maybe they struggled so much to be where they are and so, are exhausted intellectually and depressed. You achieved an incredible feat by controlling your depression, I'd be proud of it.
eggdude 14y ago
Comparing yourself to others is an easy way to think negatively and possibly even descend into depression. It's important to accept who you are and what got you there and not think that your life would be so much better "if only things had been different". Things weren't different. You were given the genes you were given from parents who you didn't choose and countless other variables influenced you to become depressed and then recover at the time you did. No need to feel bad about it. I don't mean for this to sound like a personal attack. I'm in a similar position to you and I've found it incredibly rewarding to realize that it is useless to worry about the past and what could have happened.

chmike 14y ago

You could be bipolar with a hypo maniac phase. You should check this with experts.

huggah 14y ago
I was initially diagnosed with a Major Depressive Disorder; my first round of SSRIs sent me into a manic episode. That was enough to get me diagnosed with Bipolar II. I question whether that was an accurate diagnosis; my experience with bipolar medication was pretty awful, and with behavioral treatments (CBT and environmental changes) I seem to do okay without them, which is much more rare for people who suffer from Bipolar than for people who suffer from MDD.
- chmike 14y ago
  I'm afraid the bipolar diagnostic is probably right. I would say the recurrence of the depression is a sign of that. Correlation with season variations is the most common, but not the rule. Medication efficiency and side effect are known to vary individually. In the end, the only thing that matters is that you find a treatment that helps you to feel and live better. I have heard lithium could help smooth the mood changes. Did you heard of that ? Unfortunately, some people have too bad side effects with it.
  - Buzaga 14y ago
    not even psychiatrists know about their diagnosis, since there's no scientific method at all there, just bullet point stories to try to match with the pacient... so I'd suggest not trying to diagnose people over the internet too
    - marklabedz 14y ago
      Not to mention the politics behind the DSM.

borplk 14y ago

I'm noticing some alarming similarities between your description and my current situation. Shit.

huggah 14y ago
Do something! Talk to someone; start with someone you trust (not necessarily a doctor). Catalog your history, list the duration and severity of every time you were depressed enough to impact your school, job, or social life. You're doing this with someone because this is serious trigger territory. If you're on the edge, then do this with a therapist. Don't try to diagnose yourself from this: the point is to let it sink in that you have an issue, and it's not going to get better unless you do something. Don't skip this step. Now that you're convinced, start hacking at the problem. I recommend http://www.amazon.com/The-Depression-Cure-Program-without/dp/0738213136 http://www.amazon.com/The-Depression-Cure-Program-without/dp...; but do your own research, talk to people, get better. Get better every day. You'll fail several times along the way; have people you can count on for help. Get better every year. Maybe it will be an easy, short road for you. Maybe it will be a life-long struggle. That's okay, just make sure you live long enough to find out; it will be worth it. There's only one thing you need to know: problems you ignore won't go away.