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It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fix

It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fixed voltage over the cable, rather then implementing the protocols. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but USB-C is a minefield and I've seen some weird things happen with USB-C plugs.

stephen_g 1y ago
Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous... So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.
- cesarb 1y ago
  > Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard To be pedantic, I believe that only applies to USB-C sockets; AFAIK, a USB-C plug (like on a USB-A to USB-C cable) can in some cases put out 5V (but only 5V) before detecting a sink. > but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly The standard was designed so that devices never see anything over 5V unless they ask for it, so why should a non-PD device (for instance, a mouse) care about it? In some cases (like a USB-A mouse plugged into a USB-A to USB-C adapter), the device might even have been designed and built when USB was 5V only.
  - stephen_g 1y ago
    A USB-A device obviously wouldn’t have been designed for anything more than 5V. But anything with a USB-C socket is living in a world where a faulty source could accidentally give it a higher voltage. At that point it’s just about your tolerance for risk - maybe for something worth $100 or less and not supporting PD you can skip out and if there’s a faulty charger that blows it up then whatever, but for something selling for a few hundred dollars (like the Switch, or phones, etc.) it’s worth the 50c in BOM cost for the extra protection…
whatevaa 1y ago
No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.
ShellfishMeme 1y ago
I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation. That fried another device when I plugged it in. This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.
- marcosscriven 1y ago
  I got a mini PC with such a charger (Mele Quieter). I was so shocked I immediately put a label on the USB end with a stark warning not to plug into anything.
- wickedsight 1y ago
  Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm being down-voted for this comment for this exact reason. Manufacturers are adding non-compliant USB-C plugs to tons of equipment and it causes these types of issues.
  - richrichardsson 1y ago
    It's possibly because of conflating USB-C (the connector) with the USB protocols (what goes down the wires). I could put a USB-C connector on a device and have it not even try to do any USB protocol over the wire. If not being careful about pinouts, it could be super easy to destroy either device if plugged into some other USB-compliant device.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. One problem with EU regulation (or at least most regulations; a few have union-wide regulators) is that you're really quite dependent on whether your national responsible body is any good. For something like this (assuming it's sold union-wide and not just in your country), it might actually be useful to notify the responsible bodies on _other countries_ (once it's actually investigated and recalled the recall should be union-wide).

stephen_g 1y ago

Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous... So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.

cesarb 1y ago
> Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard To be pedantic, I believe that only applies to USB-C sockets; AFAIK, a USB-C plug (like on a USB-A to USB-C cable) can in some cases put out 5V (but only 5V) before detecting a sink. > but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly The standard was designed so that devices never see anything over 5V unless they ask for it, so why should a non-PD device (for instance, a mouse) care about it? In some cases (like a USB-A mouse plugged into a USB-A to USB-C adapter), the device might even have been designed and built when USB was 5V only.
- stephen_g 1y ago
  A USB-A device obviously wouldn’t have been designed for anything more than 5V. But anything with a USB-C socket is living in a world where a faulty source could accidentally give it a higher voltage. At that point it’s just about your tolerance for risk - maybe for something worth $100 or less and not supporting PD you can skip out and if there’s a faulty charger that blows it up then whatever, but for something selling for a few hundred dollars (like the Switch, or phones, etc.) it’s worth the 50c in BOM cost for the extra protection…

whatevaa 1y ago

No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.

ShellfishMeme 1y ago

I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation. That fried another device when I plugged it in. This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.

marcosscriven 1y ago
I got a mini PC with such a charger (Mele Quieter). I was so shocked I immediately put a label on the USB end with a stark warning not to plug into anything.
wickedsight 1y ago
Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm being down-voted for this comment for this exact reason. Manufacturers are adding non-compliant USB-C plugs to tons of equipment and it causes these types of issues.
- richrichardsson 1y ago
  It's possibly because of conflating USB-C (the connector) with the USB protocols (what goes down the wires). I could put a USB-C connector on a device and have it not even try to do any USB protocol over the wire. If not being careful about pinouts, it could be super easy to destroy either device if plugged into some other USB-compliant device.
rsynnott 1y ago
> but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. One problem with EU regulation (or at least most regulations; a few have union-wide regulators) is that you're really quite dependent on whether your national responsible body is any good. For something like this (assuming it's sold union-wide and not just in your country), it might actually be useful to notify the responsible bodies on _other countries_ (once it's actually investigated and recalled the recall should be union-wide).