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Back in COVID times, when I had all the time in the world, my Switch got bricked after I charged it using my laptop charger. Nintendo refused to honor its warra

by yuiegi 1y ago

Back in COVID times, when I had all the time in the world, my Switch got bricked after I charged it using my laptop charger. Nintendo refused to honor its warranty, citing some mumbo jumbo about proprietary USB-C hardware. Fortunately, we have pretty good consumer protection laws here in Australia By the end of an entire two month saga, they sent me a brand new Switch. I always did think it was odd that a USB-C cable that wasnt Nintendo could break my Switch.

wickedsight 1y ago
It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fixed voltage over the cable, rather then implementing the protocols. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but USB-C is a minefield and I've seen some weird things happen with USB-C plugs.
- stephen_g 1y ago
  Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous... So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.
  - cesarb 1y ago
    > Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard To be pedantic, I believe that only applies to USB-C sockets; AFAIK, a USB-C plug (like on a USB-A to USB-C cable) can in some cases put out 5V (but only 5V) before detecting a sink. > but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly The standard was designed so that devices never see anything over 5V unless they ask for it, so why should a non-PD device (for instance, a mouse) care about it? In some cases (like a USB-A mouse plugged into a USB-A to USB-C adapter), the device might even have been designed and built when USB was 5V only.
    - stephen_g 1y ago
      A USB-A device obviously wouldn’t have been designed for anything more than 5V. But anything with a USB-C socket is living in a world where a faulty source could accidentally give it a higher voltage. At that point it’s just about your tolerance for risk - maybe for something worth $100 or less and not supporting PD you can skip out and if there’s a faulty charger that blows it up then whatever, but for something selling for a few hundred dollars (like the Switch, or phones, etc.) it’s worth the 50c in BOM cost for the extra protection…
- whatevaa 1y ago
  No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.
- ShellfishMeme 1y ago
  I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation. That fried another device when I plugged it in. This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.
  - marcosscriven 1y ago
    I got a mini PC with such a charger (Mele Quieter). I was so shocked I immediately put a label on the USB end with a stark warning not to plug into anything.
  - wickedsight 1y ago
    Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm being down-voted for this comment for this exact reason. Manufacturers are adding non-compliant USB-C plugs to tons of equipment and it causes these types of issues.
    - richrichardsson 1y ago
      It's possibly because of conflating USB-C (the connector) with the USB protocols (what goes down the wires). I could put a USB-C connector on a device and have it not even try to do any USB protocol over the wire. If not being careful about pinouts, it could be super easy to destroy either device if plugged into some other USB-compliant device.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    > but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. One problem with EU regulation (or at least most regulations; a few have union-wide regulators) is that you're really quite dependent on whether your national responsible body is any good. For something like this (assuming it's sold union-wide and not just in your country), it might actually be useful to notify the responsible bodies on _other countries_ (once it's actually investigated and recalled the recall should be union-wide).
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
Wow that's some nonsense; if it was proprietary, they would've gone back to using their own connectors.
- KeplerBoy 1y ago
  That's what we're discussing here. Nintendo is doing something proprietary with their usb-c video mode, hence it only works with their dock. Still a usb-c connector though, because they are dirt-cheap.
sersi 1y ago
I've bricked a samsung phone (galaxy s10+) using the switch usb c charger so that doesn't surprise me at all
hatsunearu 1y ago
USB-C was really really really rough in the early years. The switch 1 was one of the first products to come out with USB-C IIRC.
- indrora 1y ago
  Not even. Early devices were things like the OnePlus 2 [0] and there were plenty of phones out before the Switch even hit the market in 2017 [1]. There were some issues with standards compliance, sure, but the market had vastly improved by the time the Switch had come out. [0] https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType=1 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType...
- rsynnott 1y ago
  Nah; Apple's notoriously not-very-good 12" MacBook and the Chromebook Pixel had it since 2015, and Apple's more mainstream laptops since 2016. Nintendo doesn't really have any excuse for the original Switch's problematic USB-C beyond laziness: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803
- rs186 1y ago
  "rough" doesn't explain any of what's happening here. Nintendo messed up, that's it.
szatkus 1y ago
Switch 2 seems to be more up to standard. I was able to charge it with a normal phone charger and also the Switch 2 charger seems to work with everything else unlike the one for Switch 1. Fortunately I never bricked anything with that, but it just never worked with anything other than the console.
- mmis1000 1y ago
  Switch 1 require the charger to support pd2 12v to charge at all. Some changer may decide to skip that voltage, and support only 9v and 15v. So Switch is not happy about it. Every device in my room except for switch supports more than one voltage config. Wondering why on the earth switch decided to handle voltage setting like this. Usually, pd charger will label their supported voltage config. And you can read that label to find out whether a charger will work with switch or not. Source: I do use my phone charger to charge switch during traveling
- mmis1000 1y ago
  Also notice, some charger will disable part of the supported voltages when there are more than one device connected. Mine apparently drops 12v when there are other device connected (thus prevented switch 1 from charging)
mmis1000 1y ago
Back in that time, my switch broke twice. And I eventually find out. If I am using one of the e-marked wire with the switch, the port get destroyed immediately. Every single device in my room works with that wire exactly like it should. Except for switch. Their typec port is so broken, and not broke in a safe way.

by yuiegi 1y ago

wickedsight 1y ago

It's not that strange. USB-C is a plug, not everyone who implements the plug also implements it correctly. Some chargers with a USB-C Plug might just send a fixed voltage over the cable, rather then implementing the protocols. I'm not saying that's the case for you, but USB-C is a minefield and I've seen some weird things happen with USB-C plugs.

stephen_g 1y ago
Usually a competently designed USB-C input should have over-voltage protection and short-to-VBUS protection for over 20V (25-28V). Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard, but a charger putting out over 20V without any PD negotiation would be absurdly wrong and dangerous... So there are non-compliant plugs, but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly - either through ineptitude or foolish cost saving.
- cesarb 1y ago
  > Putting out any voltage before detecting a sink is breaking the standard To be pedantic, I believe that only applies to USB-C sockets; AFAIK, a USB-C plug (like on a USB-A to USB-C cable) can in some cases put out 5V (but only 5V) before detecting a sink. > but if your device breaks just because it sees a regular PD VBUS voltage (5-20V) then it means that it was designed badly The standard was designed so that devices never see anything over 5V unless they ask for it, so why should a non-PD device (for instance, a mouse) care about it? In some cases (like a USB-A mouse plugged into a USB-A to USB-C adapter), the device might even have been designed and built when USB was 5V only.
  - stephen_g 1y ago
    A USB-A device obviously wouldn’t have been designed for anything more than 5V. But anything with a USB-C socket is living in a world where a faulty source could accidentally give it a higher voltage. At that point it’s just about your tolerance for risk - maybe for something worth $100 or less and not supporting PD you can skip out and if there’s a faulty charger that blows it up then whatever, but for something selling for a few hundred dollars (like the Switch, or phones, etc.) it’s worth the 50c in BOM cost for the extra protection…
whatevaa 1y ago
No, usb-c is a protocol too. Those devices (includinf switch charger) are garbage. Worst case it should just not charge, not damage something.
ShellfishMeme 1y ago
I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation. That fried another device when I plugged it in. This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a product aimed at people with babies, that's clearly non compliant to be sold in the EU, and they are doing nothing at all. Pretty shocking if you ask me.
- marcosscriven 1y ago
  I got a mini PC with such a charger (Mele Quieter). I was so shocked I immediately put a label on the USB end with a stark warning not to plug into anything.
- wickedsight 1y ago
  Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm being down-voted for this comment for this exact reason. Manufacturers are adding non-compliant USB-C plugs to tons of equipment and it causes these types of issues.
  - richrichardsson 1y ago
    It's possibly because of conflating USB-C (the connector) with the USB protocols (what goes down the wires). I could put a USB-C connector on a device and have it not even try to do any USB protocol over the wire. If not being careful about pinouts, it could be super easy to destroy either device if plugged into some other USB-compliant device.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. One problem with EU regulation (or at least most regulations; a few have union-wide regulators) is that you're really quite dependent on whether your national responsible body is any good. For something like this (assuming it's sold union-wide and not just in your country), it might actually be useful to notify the responsible bodies on _other countries_ (once it's actually investigated and recalled the recall should be union-wide).

Cthulhu_ 1y ago

Wow that's some nonsense; if it was proprietary, they would've gone back to using their own connectors.

KeplerBoy 1y ago
That's what we're discussing here. Nintendo is doing something proprietary with their usb-c video mode, hence it only works with their dock. Still a usb-c connector though, because they are dirt-cheap.

sersi 1y ago

I've bricked a samsung phone (galaxy s10+) using the switch usb c charger so that doesn't surprise me at all

hatsunearu 1y ago

USB-C was really really really rough in the early years. The switch 1 was one of the first products to come out with USB-C IIRC.

indrora 1y ago
Not even. Early devices were things like the OnePlus 2 [0] and there were plenty of phones out before the Switch even hit the market in 2017 [1]. There were some issues with standards compliance, sure, but the market had vastly improved by the time the Switch had come out. [0] https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php https://www.gsmarena.com/oneplus_2-6902.php [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType=1 https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMax=2017&nUSBType...
rsynnott 1y ago
Nah; Apple's notoriously not-very-good 12" MacBook and the Chromebook Pixel had it since 2015, and Apple's more mainstream laptops since 2016. Nintendo doesn't really have any excuse for the original Switch's problematic USB-C beyond laziness: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803
rs186 1y ago
"rough" doesn't explain any of what's happening here. Nintendo messed up, that's it.

szatkus 1y ago

Switch 2 seems to be more up to standard. I was able to charge it with a normal phone charger and also the Switch 2 charger seems to work with everything else unlike the one for Switch 1. Fortunately I never bricked anything with that, but it just never worked with anything other than the console.

mmis1000 1y ago
Switch 1 require the charger to support pd2 12v to charge at all. Some changer may decide to skip that voltage, and support only 9v and 15v. So Switch is not happy about it. Every device in my room except for switch supports more than one voltage config. Wondering why on the earth switch decided to handle voltage setting like this. Usually, pd charger will label their supported voltage config. And you can read that label to find out whether a charger will work with switch or not. Source: I do use my phone charger to charge switch during traveling
mmis1000 1y ago
Also notice, some charger will disable part of the supported voltages when there are more than one device connected. Mine apparently drops 12v when there are other device connected (thus prevented switch 1 from charging)

mmis1000 1y ago

Back in that time, my switch broke twice. And I eventually find out. If I am using one of the e-marked wire with the switch, the port get destroyed immediately. Every single device in my room works with that wire exactly like it should. Except for switch. Their typec port is so broken, and not broke in a safe way.