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> Federal efficiency standards transformed dishwashers into marathon cleaners. Modern machines take 2.5 to 4 hours per cycle—a far cry from the quick turnaround

> Federal efficiency standards transformed dishwashers into marathon cleaners. Modern machines take 2.5 to 4 hours per cycle—a far cry from the quick turnarounds families actually need. The Department of Energy’s push for water conservation limits new models to 5 gallons per cycle, with proposals dropping that to 3.2 gallons by 2027. You get cleaner dishes eventually, but “eventually” doesn’t work when kids need their lunch containers ready for tomorrow morning. I bought one recently. There's a fast cycle. The manual indicates the option uses more energy and water; it completes in ~30 minutes. All the other dishwashers we looked at had a similar feature. My family of four is usually just fine with the ~3 hour cycle. It corresponds quite well with our three meals a day; the lunch containers are most certainly clean by "tomorrow morning". > Your dishwasher demands $600 to $1,200 upfront, plus $200 to $400 when specialized parts inevitably fail. Annual operating costs hit $60 to $130 for efficient models, reaching $218 for older units depending on local energy rates. Compare that to handwashing: immediate results, zero equipment investment, and complete control over timing. The math increasingly favors the sink. If you value your time (and a lifetime of skin/joint wear-and-tear) at $0/hour, sure. And the sink has its own upfront ($500-$1000; https://www.homedepot.com/b/Kitchen-Kitchen-Sinks-Drop-in-Kitchen-Sinks/N-5yc1vZcgk5 https://www.homedepot.com/b/Kitchen-Kitchen-Sinks-Drop-in-Ki...) and operating (sponges, hot water, more water per washed dish) costs.

heisenbit 1y ago
The comparison is a lesson in manipulation. Energy cost of the dishwasher vs. no energy cost for hand washing. Last but not least what is not mentioned is cooking. Cooking and eating at home makes a lot of dishes dirty in a short period of time. On top if you have spent time cooking at least I am not so inclined in continuing afterwards in the kitchen to wash up.
Volundr 1y ago
Yeah I've never understood the complaint about dishwashers taking too long. Are people waiting until they need a dish to run them? We add dishes to ours till it's ~full and run it, which probably results in 2-3 times a week. If there's a dirty dish we need we either run it early or hand wash that dish quickly. In general when we run it it's welcome to take as long as it wants because that's time we spending doing literally anything other than washing dishes.
slau 1y ago
The amount of water required to wash by hand is exorbitant compared to the efficiency of a dishwasher. Last time I checked, handwashing is 3 times less efficient in water usage than in the best case scenario (for handwashing), and 40 times less efficient in water usage in the worst case scenario. Plus, even if we were to assume that somehow a human manages to use the same amount of water, then you’re still warming up the water somehow. It doesn’t become magically hot by exiting the tap, so the vast majority of the dishwasher’s electric running cost would now be shouldered by the water heating unit. Except it’s now 3-40x more water that needs to be warmed up.
- sshine 1y ago
  I measured my water usage washing by hand many years ago and can easily match the machine's usage. The trick is to reuse the water for scrubbing/soaping and "flash rinse" by quickly turning off the water when rinsing. Also, that's not how I wash dishes by hand any more; I splurge with the warm water used per cleaned item. But I still don't let it run for more than a few seconds. It just feels wasteful. > you’re still warming up the water somehow This is somewhat a sunk cost for most people: Unless you turn off the warm water in your pipes, constantly keeping warm water available costs something and using a bit of it costs very little in addition. We really should be thinking of turning off water heating at times when we know for certain it's not being used, and only heat up water anticipating usage. There's a lot of energy to be saved for modern smart homes (or anyone who cares to manually regulate, or simply has to because they're using wood burners and such). That is assuming you don't use highly isolated water bodies as thermal batteries.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > We really should be thinking of turning off water heating at times when we know for certain it's not being used, and only heat up water anticipating usage. That’s what tankless water heaters are for. I’ve had one for a decade, it’s lovely.
  - slau 1y ago
    I don’t refute your claim, but I think on average people are unable to match a dishwasher. 12 litres for 150 items is ridiculously good. The university of Bonn indicates that the equivalent handwash uses 100L, and in some cases 300-400L. Pre-rinsing uses 100L alone. These are averages. Some people are extremely good, others are terrible. In some countries it’s customary to let the tap run while washing dishes, etc, so that’s why the extremes vary so wildly. I also think that sink setup has a massive impact. In my current flat (which came with a dishwasher) I only have a single sink. It’s complicated to be efficient with water, unless I use a secondary container where I can store soapy dishes together until I can rinse everything. Years ago when I lived in a flat without a dishwasher, it had “three sinks” (two large and deep ones, and a smaller area in the middle). It was trivial to have a little soapy water on one side, wash everything, move it to the other side, and literally rinse and repeat. Water usage was greatly reduced compared to my current setup. The only thing I don’t run in the dishwasher are wooden items and the couple of non-stick items I still have left.

heisenbit 1y ago

The comparison is a lesson in manipulation. Energy cost of the dishwasher vs. no energy cost for hand washing. Last but not least what is not mentioned is cooking. Cooking and eating at home makes a lot of dishes dirty in a short period of time. On top if you have spent time cooking at least I am not so inclined in continuing afterwards in the kitchen to wash up.

Volundr 1y ago

Yeah I've never understood the complaint about dishwashers taking too long. Are people waiting until they need a dish to run them? We add dishes to ours till it's ~full and run it, which probably results in 2-3 times a week. If there's a dirty dish we need we either run it early or hand wash that dish quickly. In general when we run it it's welcome to take as long as it wants because that's time we spending doing literally anything other than washing dishes.

slau 1y ago

The amount of water required to wash by hand is exorbitant compared to the efficiency of a dishwasher. Last time I checked, handwashing is 3 times less efficient in water usage than in the best case scenario (for handwashing), and 40 times less efficient in water usage in the worst case scenario. Plus, even if we were to assume that somehow a human manages to use the same amount of water, then you’re still warming up the water somehow. It doesn’t become magically hot by exiting the tap, so the vast majority of the dishwasher’s electric running cost would now be shouldered by the water heating unit. Except it’s now 3-40x more water that needs to be warmed up.

sshine 1y ago
I measured my water usage washing by hand many years ago and can easily match the machine's usage. The trick is to reuse the water for scrubbing/soaping and "flash rinse" by quickly turning off the water when rinsing. Also, that's not how I wash dishes by hand any more; I splurge with the warm water used per cleaned item. But I still don't let it run for more than a few seconds. It just feels wasteful. > you’re still warming up the water somehow This is somewhat a sunk cost for most people: Unless you turn off the warm water in your pipes, constantly keeping warm water available costs something and using a bit of it costs very little in addition. We really should be thinking of turning off water heating at times when we know for certain it's not being used, and only heat up water anticipating usage. There's a lot of energy to be saved for modern smart homes (or anyone who cares to manually regulate, or simply has to because they're using wood burners and such). That is assuming you don't use highly isolated water bodies as thermal batteries.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > We really should be thinking of turning off water heating at times when we know for certain it's not being used, and only heat up water anticipating usage. That’s what tankless water heaters are for. I’ve had one for a decade, it’s lovely.
- slau 1y ago
  I don’t refute your claim, but I think on average people are unable to match a dishwasher. 12 litres for 150 items is ridiculously good. The university of Bonn indicates that the equivalent handwash uses 100L, and in some cases 300-400L. Pre-rinsing uses 100L alone. These are averages. Some people are extremely good, others are terrible. In some countries it’s customary to let the tap run while washing dishes, etc, so that’s why the extremes vary so wildly. I also think that sink setup has a massive impact. In my current flat (which came with a dishwasher) I only have a single sink. It’s complicated to be efficient with water, unless I use a secondary container where I can store soapy dishes together until I can rinse everything. Years ago when I lived in a flat without a dishwasher, it had “three sinks” (two large and deep ones, and a smaller area in the middle). It was trivial to have a little soapy water on one side, wash everything, move it to the other side, and literally rinse and repeat. Water usage was greatly reduced compared to my current setup. The only thing I don’t run in the dishwasher are wooden items and the couple of non-stick items I still have left.