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> If being organized makes you feel good > If you are very OCD Please educate yourself, OCD is serious shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93c

> If being organized makes you feel good > If you are very OCD Please educate yourself, OCD is serious shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_d... Some people with OCD literally starve to death, because they can't leave their house. Commonly you find those affected washing their hands repeatedly until they bleed... and then some more. It is absolute not a "what makes you feel good" kinda thing, it's a dysfunctional and irrational mental world model enforced by a crippling sense of doom, anxiety and shame, which will consume life (especially if "very OCD"). Most importantly, for those with actual OCD, you absolutely aren't advised to embrace that destructive, irrational world model by leaning in on compulsions. You cannot really exploit it for good, by definition. And by definition, it isn't benign. I wish people would stop attributing a quirky/controlling personality, a desire for order, symmetry and tidy rooms to a serious mental disorder. You wouldn't twist major depression, schizophrenia, or cluster B disorders like that. If you feel left out on the identity game, go read Lord of the Rings, or Das Kapital, try horse riding, or golf. Quite honestly, for me this casts serious shade on the whole article. Because "ADHD" is similarly misattributed and casually "self-diagnosed". Maybe the author just got very ADHD by browsing too much Insta and later found stimulants to be stimulating. Much easier to cure that kind of ADHD through abstinence and structure. (Although coming up with elaborate routines and revolutionary hacks, which are a total breakthrough for a whole month, is a very ADHD thing...)

margor 1y ago
Do you really believe there is only one kind of OCD, specifically one you described? I'm sorry to tell you, but both ADHD and OCD exist on a spectrum. Furthermore, ADHD like symptoms can be caused through other illness than actual dopamine deficiency.
- allworms 1y ago
  There are many kinds of OCD! There are zero kinds of OCD that aren't a disorder. A helpful mnemonic is: you could imagine OCD stands for "obsessive compulsive disorder".
- jijijijij 1y ago
  Yes, "one kind", by definition of being a disorder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder "Some people", "commonly" already implies a variety in symptoms and manifestations. But by definition, they all cause clinically significant impairment, or distress.
allworms 1y ago
> I wish people would stop attributing a quirky/controlling personality > for me this casts serious shade on the whole article I think that's healthy wariness. The article seems overall well thought out, but OCD is an extremely common blindspot today, so I don't think it spoils the rest of the advice (which is largely good and spot-on). Even my primary care doctor, when I told him I'd been diagnosed with OCD causing many disparate kinds of anxiety and depression, said something about "well you want your accountant to have a little OCD for example." I was a little stunned!
- jijijijij 1y ago
  I agree, there is some good advice in there. However, this makes the OCD remark stand out even more for me. Bit like a doctor recommending homeopathy or starts talking about flat earth stuff. Getting such a basic thing so wrong, taints everything else. See, "the good advice" is knowledge I can recognize as such, therefore information I already have. You need a basis of trust accepting any new information. A flat-earther may get Newtonian physics right, but I won't go there to learn about it. I don't think the OCD section adds much anyway, so I think the article would be greatly improved by removing it.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jijijijij 1y ago
Apparently, the article has changed and now doesn't contain the OCD reference anymore. Cool! Here is the version I was referring to: https://web.archive.org/web/20250828075812/https://borretti.me/article/notes-on-managing-adhd https://web.archive.org/web/20250828075812/https://borretti....
hinkley 1y ago
I would say that control issues are the seed of OCD. Nobody wants OCD, but Illusion of Control is no cakewalk either. Generally that will also go along with an anxious or avoidant attachment style, which is even less fun.
- jijijijij 1y ago
  I don't get your point, sorry. Not sure you got mine, either. As mentioned in a comment elsewhere, the article has changed since I wrote the call out. It doesn't contain the ignorant OCD remark anymore. I didn't bring up OCD out of nowhere.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    Probably too much assumed context. I’ll expand. A good deal of ADHD masking/coping mechanisms show up as trying to control certain parts of the environment. We need to do this thing that way and keep this thing at that location and never ever do X but instead Y. It can look like someone who needs those things for other reasons, like mild OCD or even autism. But it’s really about preventing everything from going to shit in the worst ways that we cannot deal well with. So while your room may look like a bomb went off and your fridge is half empty, there are certain things you are super precious about. Because a little work now saves a lot of grief later, and for those little islands of sanity you find the motivation to perform them. For me this is mostly at work. And the things I need to be a certain way help everyone during an emergency. High cortisol levels make every brain more like an ADHD brain.
    - jijijijij 1y ago
      Yes, it may look like OCD superficially, but it isn't. By definition (and name) it's a disorder which mean its symptoms impair life to a clinically significant extent. ADHD and OCD are often co-morbid (see below), can fuel each other, and otherwise share the "obsession" dynamic. However, a very important characteristic of OCD is its cyclic, repetitive nature. Being obsessed with order and symmetry isn't the point of OCD. With OCD you get "stuck" on this obsession. Keeping/restoring order/symmetry is not enough, you have to do it over and over again. With the hand washing example, it's not that people typically need to wash their hands 20 times as per head canon, but rather immediately after washing their hands, doubt creeps in, then comes the sense of doom and anxiety about the consequences of not having it done "right". ADHD can worsen this, as lack of attention to the "task" increases doubt. You know this feeling of "something extremely horrible is about to happen"? Similar to how a panic attack feels. That's the sense of doom. It's a medical phenomenon also observed with people actually about to die, sometimes. It's an old feeling... The "this cave is not safe", "being watched by a predator" feeling. It can cascade into the most fear and anxiety the brain can experience, it's very, very imperative, and commonly what people with OCD experience when they ignore their compulsions. (Shame may also play a role and compulsions may also be completely internal "thought habits".) OCD is for the most part an anxiety disorder, it's mostly not about the actual ticks and obsessions, which may change over time. People with OCD are aware their obsessions are non-nonsensical, statistically unlikely, irrational, etc., but the feeling of terror is too imperative! Neurologically there is an anxiety plateau which is important for OCD CBT, as learning this feeling is not a bottomless pit and you can endure it, is the path to reshaping neuronal pathways. Not giving in to compulsions, staying with the fear is how OCD is therapeutically treated - the opposite of what the author had suggested. For normal people, the "spectrum ramp" to this dynamic may rather be the common experience of "did I lock the door?", "did I turn off the gas?", where it's also common to check and even recheck. Though, healthy minds get out of this loop, before it becomes an impairment. Again, because of the lack of attention, bad working memory ADHD may derail this dynamic and an "OCD-ish" extent may also present as adaptation. For example, forgetting about the stove may become an (rational) anxiety trigger from experience ("I almost burned down the house and everyone I love"... again) and inattentive checking and rechecking may become a coping strategy. This can spiral into OCD, especially because shame and stress are at an increased base level due to colliding with other people's expectations and so on. Without the anxiety, without the repetitiveness, without the impairment quality of an disorder, it's not OCD. Personally, I think it's very bad taste to use the term inflationary considering the suffering and disability this mental disorder causes.

margor 1y ago

Do you really believe there is only one kind of OCD, specifically one you described? I'm sorry to tell you, but both ADHD and OCD exist on a spectrum. Furthermore, ADHD like symptoms can be caused through other illness than actual dopamine deficiency.

allworms 1y ago
There are many kinds of OCD! There are zero kinds of OCD that aren't a disorder. A helpful mnemonic is: you could imagine OCD stands for "obsessive compulsive disorder".
jijijijij 1y ago
Yes, "one kind", by definition of being a disorder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder "Some people", "commonly" already implies a variety in symptoms and manifestations. But by definition, they all cause clinically significant impairment, or distress.

allworms 1y ago

> I wish people would stop attributing a quirky/controlling personality > for me this casts serious shade on the whole article I think that's healthy wariness. The article seems overall well thought out, but OCD is an extremely common blindspot today, so I don't think it spoils the rest of the advice (which is largely good and spot-on). Even my primary care doctor, when I told him I'd been diagnosed with OCD causing many disparate kinds of anxiety and depression, said something about "well you want your accountant to have a little OCD for example." I was a little stunned!

jijijijij 1y ago
I agree, there is some good advice in there. However, this makes the OCD remark stand out even more for me. Bit like a doctor recommending homeopathy or starts talking about flat earth stuff. Getting such a basic thing so wrong, taints everything else. See, "the good advice" is knowledge I can recognize as such, therefore information I already have. You need a basis of trust accepting any new information. A flat-earther may get Newtonian physics right, but I won't go there to learn about it. I don't think the OCD section adds much anyway, so I think the article would be greatly improved by removing it.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jijijijij 1y ago

Apparently, the article has changed and now doesn't contain the OCD reference anymore. Cool! Here is the version I was referring to: https://web.archive.org/web/20250828075812/https://borretti.me/article/notes-on-managing-adhd https://web.archive.org/web/20250828075812/https://borretti....

hinkley 1y ago

I would say that control issues are the seed of OCD. Nobody wants OCD, but Illusion of Control is no cakewalk either. Generally that will also go along with an anxious or avoidant attachment style, which is even less fun.

jijijijij 1y ago
I don't get your point, sorry. Not sure you got mine, either. As mentioned in a comment elsewhere, the article has changed since I wrote the call out. It doesn't contain the ignorant OCD remark anymore. I didn't bring up OCD out of nowhere.
- hinkley 1y ago
  Probably too much assumed context. I’ll expand. A good deal of ADHD masking/coping mechanisms show up as trying to control certain parts of the environment. We need to do this thing that way and keep this thing at that location and never ever do X but instead Y. It can look like someone who needs those things for other reasons, like mild OCD or even autism. But it’s really about preventing everything from going to shit in the worst ways that we cannot deal well with. So while your room may look like a bomb went off and your fridge is half empty, there are certain things you are super precious about. Because a little work now saves a lot of grief later, and for those little islands of sanity you find the motivation to perform them. For me this is mostly at work. And the things I need to be a certain way help everyone during an emergency. High cortisol levels make every brain more like an ADHD brain.
  - jijijijij 1y ago
    Yes, it may look like OCD superficially, but it isn't. By definition (and name) it's a disorder which mean its symptoms impair life to a clinically significant extent. ADHD and OCD are often co-morbid (see below), can fuel each other, and otherwise share the "obsession" dynamic. However, a very important characteristic of OCD is its cyclic, repetitive nature. Being obsessed with order and symmetry isn't the point of OCD. With OCD you get "stuck" on this obsession. Keeping/restoring order/symmetry is not enough, you have to do it over and over again. With the hand washing example, it's not that people typically need to wash their hands 20 times as per head canon, but rather immediately after washing their hands, doubt creeps in, then comes the sense of doom and anxiety about the consequences of not having it done "right". ADHD can worsen this, as lack of attention to the "task" increases doubt. You know this feeling of "something extremely horrible is about to happen"? Similar to how a panic attack feels. That's the sense of doom. It's a medical phenomenon also observed with people actually about to die, sometimes. It's an old feeling... The "this cave is not safe", "being watched by a predator" feeling. It can cascade into the most fear and anxiety the brain can experience, it's very, very imperative, and commonly what people with OCD experience when they ignore their compulsions. (Shame may also play a role and compulsions may also be completely internal "thought habits".) OCD is for the most part an anxiety disorder, it's mostly not about the actual ticks and obsessions, which may change over time. People with OCD are aware their obsessions are non-nonsensical, statistically unlikely, irrational, etc., but the feeling of terror is too imperative! Neurologically there is an anxiety plateau which is important for OCD CBT, as learning this feeling is not a bottomless pit and you can endure it, is the path to reshaping neuronal pathways. Not giving in to compulsions, staying with the fear is how OCD is therapeutically treated - the opposite of what the author had suggested. For normal people, the "spectrum ramp" to this dynamic may rather be the common experience of "did I lock the door?", "did I turn off the gas?", where it's also common to check and even recheck. Though, healthy minds get out of this loop, before it becomes an impairment. Again, because of the lack of attention, bad working memory ADHD may derail this dynamic and an "OCD-ish" extent may also present as adaptation. For example, forgetting about the stove may become an (rational) anxiety trigger from experience ("I almost burned down the house and everyone I love"... again) and inattentive checking and rechecking may become a coping strategy. This can spiral into OCD, especially because shame and stress are at an increased base level due to colliding with other people's expectations and so on. Without the anxiety, without the repetitiveness, without the impairment quality of an disorder, it's not OCD. Personally, I think it's very bad taste to use the term inflationary considering the suffering and disability this mental disorder causes.