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And Microsoft. Microsoft basically killed Nokia from the inside. Symbian was fairly open in terms of installing applications from wherever you wanted. And Maem

by nextos 1y ago

And Microsoft. Microsoft basically killed Nokia from the inside. Symbian was fairly open in terms of installing applications from wherever you wanted. And Maemo/MeeGo were basically normal Linux distributions. Right now, SailfishOS is a worthy successor. It runs on a fairly decent number of devices and is quite ready for daily usage. Following the Nokia tradition, offline maps are outstanding. There's also a proprietary Android emulation layer that works really well for most applications, in case that is needed. SailfishOS and Jolla could challenge the duopoly if a critical mass of developers migrated to the system. Right now, there's a fairly small technical userbase that has nonetheless produced lots of great indie applications. I can't believe I had Linux in my pocket with the N770 in late 2005 and, right now, mainstream options are so locked down.

bitwize 1y ago
Sailfish is not, and never will be, available in the USA. The reason why is because US carriers do device whitelisting: if the handset is not approved by the carrier, it cannot connect. And they're not going to approve anything but iOS and Android.
- nextos 1y ago
  Plenty of SFOS users run the OS on Sony devices, where it has official support, I don't see a major problem. T-Mobile seems to have no problem with them. There are of course caveats, but with a larger userbase things would get ironed out. Still, in the Sailfish forum there are American users that employ their devices as daily drivers.
- mindslight 1y ago
  Keep on hacking at basebands. In the US, changing a device's IMEI is only illegal when done with intent to obtain unauthorized service. Using a phone of your choice on your side of the radio wave demarc falls squarely under Carterphone. (Never mind clunkier but more straightforward solutions like a libre device/OS using wifi from a mifi)
  - bitwize 1y ago
    Ah, but once the baseband is hacked, the FCC may declare it out of compliance with its regulations and thus, illegal to transmit!
    - mindslight 1y ago
      Sure, but that seems much harder to notice/enforce than blanket blocks. And while you could always get singled out for enforcement, that won't necessarily stop group momentum.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
>Microsoft basically killed Nokia from the inside. Nokia was dead man walking since the first iPhone dropped and Nokia employees of that time will tell you the same as they also wrote here before. Even before Microsoft took over, Nokia's corporate structure, culture and management was too slow, bureaucratic and cumbersome to modern SW development, to be able to turn the giant ship around and catch up with what Apple and Google have already launched, let alone overtake them. It was game over for them already, Microsoft or no Microsoft.
- nextos 1y ago
  I disagree. The N770-N9 saga could have competed with the iPhone. Some of these devices came to the market earlier. But the company treated it as a side project due to internal politics. They didn't want to bother Symbian. A classic innovator's dilemma problem. Then Microsoft (Elop) came in, killed the N9, and shifted to Windows.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >I disagree. The N770-N9 saga could have competed with the iPhone. Says you, not the market. You are free to disagree, but history proves you wrong. If N770-N9 were such good devices for the gen-pop, they would have beaten iPhone sales to the moon and show Apple that they were wrong, but they weren't. The average user is not your tech savvy HN user who likes to tinker with mobile FOSS Linux devices, and iPhone's success proved this. >[...] due to internal politics. That's exactly what I said. Having better tech is useless if your corporate management, product execution and marketing is shit. That's why Apple and Google won, and Nokia, Motorola, and et-al lost on the free market.
    - nextos 1y ago
      I agree with your point about politics. But marketwise, the N9 sold very well despite the project received no support, and also got glowing reviews [1]. The N900 still enjoys cult status. Posts about this device pop up in HN every now and then. Maemo/MeeGo could have >10% marketshare in some EU countries, just like desktop Linux does right now. The N9 was a very elegant device, ready for the masses, and good enough to become a third mobile platform. The N9 was incredibly elegant and easy to use. The hardware was well crafted, and the card-based UI was outstanding. All applications were well integrated. For example, any messaging application would add its protocol to your contact list, instead of having everything fragmented in apps. Offline maps were second to none. It took a decade for iOS and Android to catch up. It shipped with native support for a variety of VoIP protocols, including Google Talk (Jingle) and Skype. The OLED screen was stunning on the dark mode UI. Mozilla provided a great mobile Firefox port, and there was a native terminal just in case you wanted to ssh to machines or do something from your phone. Tethering or even using Linux running on your phone from a bigger screen worked really well, in 2011. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2011/10/22/2506376/nokia-n9-review https://www.theverge.com/2011/10/22/2506376/nokia-n9-review
cmxch 1y ago
Then let the US in.

by nextos 1y ago

bitwize 1y ago

Sailfish is not, and never will be, available in the USA. The reason why is because US carriers do device whitelisting: if the handset is not approved by the carrier, it cannot connect. And they're not going to approve anything but iOS and Android.

nextos 1y ago
Plenty of SFOS users run the OS on Sony devices, where it has official support, I don't see a major problem. T-Mobile seems to have no problem with them. There are of course caveats, but with a larger userbase things would get ironed out. Still, in the Sailfish forum there are American users that employ their devices as daily drivers.
mindslight 1y ago
Keep on hacking at basebands. In the US, changing a device's IMEI is only illegal when done with intent to obtain unauthorized service. Using a phone of your choice on your side of the radio wave demarc falls squarely under Carterphone. (Never mind clunkier but more straightforward solutions like a libre device/OS using wifi from a mifi)
- bitwize 1y ago
  Ah, but once the baseband is hacked, the FCC may declare it out of compliance with its regulations and thus, illegal to transmit!
  - mindslight 1y ago
    Sure, but that seems much harder to notice/enforce than blanket blocks. And while you could always get singled out for enforcement, that won't necessarily stop group momentum.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

>Microsoft basically killed Nokia from the inside. Nokia was dead man walking since the first iPhone dropped and Nokia employees of that time will tell you the same as they also wrote here before. Even before Microsoft took over, Nokia's corporate structure, culture and management was too slow, bureaucratic and cumbersome to modern SW development, to be able to turn the giant ship around and catch up with what Apple and Google have already launched, let alone overtake them. It was game over for them already, Microsoft or no Microsoft.

nextos 1y ago
I disagree. The N770-N9 saga could have competed with the iPhone. Some of these devices came to the market earlier. But the company treated it as a side project due to internal politics. They didn't want to bother Symbian. A classic innovator's dilemma problem. Then Microsoft (Elop) came in, killed the N9, and shifted to Windows.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >I disagree. The N770-N9 saga could have competed with the iPhone. Says you, not the market. You are free to disagree, but history proves you wrong. If N770-N9 were such good devices for the gen-pop, they would have beaten iPhone sales to the moon and show Apple that they were wrong, but they weren't. The average user is not your tech savvy HN user who likes to tinker with mobile FOSS Linux devices, and iPhone's success proved this. >[...] due to internal politics. That's exactly what I said. Having better tech is useless if your corporate management, product execution and marketing is shit. That's why Apple and Google won, and Nokia, Motorola, and et-al lost on the free market.
  - nextos 1y ago
    I agree with your point about politics. But marketwise, the N9 sold very well despite the project received no support, and also got glowing reviews [1]. The N900 still enjoys cult status. Posts about this device pop up in HN every now and then. Maemo/MeeGo could have >10% marketshare in some EU countries, just like desktop Linux does right now. The N9 was a very elegant device, ready for the masses, and good enough to become a third mobile platform. The N9 was incredibly elegant and easy to use. The hardware was well crafted, and the card-based UI was outstanding. All applications were well integrated. For example, any messaging application would add its protocol to your contact list, instead of having everything fragmented in apps. Offline maps were second to none. It took a decade for iOS and Android to catch up. It shipped with native support for a variety of VoIP protocols, including Google Talk (Jingle) and Skype. The OLED screen was stunning on the dark mode UI. Mozilla provided a great mobile Firefox port, and there was a native terminal just in case you wanted to ssh to machines or do something from your phone. Tethering or even using Linux running on your phone from a bigger screen worked really well, in 2011. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2011/10/22/2506376/nokia-n9-review https://www.theverge.com/2011/10/22/2506376/nokia-n9-review

cmxch 1y ago

Then let the US in.