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New York is teeming with what appear to be newly arrived "immigrants" who do no speak a word of English (and frankly are rather aggressive about their refusal t

New York is teeming with what appear to be newly arrived "immigrants" who do no speak a word of English (and frankly are rather aggressive about their refusal to do so) yet are employed in various crafts. We had fairly substantial renovation recently in our building. Every single worker was clearly a recent arrival. How do we know how many jobs were actually created if so many of them are not "officially recorded"? (I am an immigrant myself (via the legal means) lest you take my observation as a xenophobic expression.)

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
the_gastropod 1y ago
The U.S. has no official language, and no one who moves here is required to learn English. Especially in NYC, where so many neighborhoods predominantly speak a language that is not English (Brighton Beach, Sunset Park, Flushing, Chinatown, etc.) Assuming someone speaking another language is both a “recent arrival” and working illegally is… something. Apparently it’s not xenophobic, but it’s not a good look.
- dboreham 1y ago
  There are communities of non-English speaking people here in Montana. They speak a form of German. Hutterites (kind of like Amish).
  - yubblegum 1y ago
    Does the New York Times (which is a national paper) have a section in German language? Does it have one in any other non-English language besides Spanish? Why is Spanish singled out? Why was "bilingualism" being promoted so heavily? Meaning no offense, wtf has the Spanish speaking community contributed to American history to get this special perch? So yeah, there are all sorts of little pockets here and there, and grandpas and grandmas of various flavor speaking the old country's tongue but only one was promoted. The phenomena is obviously political in nature and to construe is as anything else, including "prejudice" or "xenophobia", is disengenuous.
    - the_gastropod 1y ago
      What’s the German-speaking population of the United States? What German-speaking lands in the Americas did the United States acquire through violent or financial means? > Meaning no offense, wtf has the Spanish speaking community contributed to American history to get this special perch? About half of the total land area of the US was formerly colonized by the Spanish. What “history” are you referring to?! And what “special perch”? > The phenomena is obviously political in nature and to construe is as anything else, including "prejudice" or "xenophobia", is disengenuous. This is innuendo. Say what you want to say, and don’t couch it behind a passive “political”. Who’s driving what outcome, and for what ends. Go on!
      - yubblegum 1y ago
        The historic arguemnt is lucidrous since NYTimes only recently published in a bilingual mode. Special perch is clear: this is a nation of numerious ethnicities with an equal number of distinct 'mother tongues'. The special perch is the recent push to normalize having an entire subset of the society speak a langauge that many of us do not speak and have no desire to learn.
        the_gastropod 1y ago
        They’re not equal. There are more Spanish-speakers in the U.S. (and the world, for that matter) than there are German, Estonian, Russian, Croatian, Dutch, Portuguese, Italian, … speakers. You’re ascribing some bizarre conspiracy to basic market dynamics. And again, this is pretty localized. Salt Lake City has less Spanish than Los Angeles. Flushing, Queens has more Mandarin than Spanish or English. It remains unclear who is being harmed here. And what solutions are you advocating for?
        yubblegum 1y ago
        What "market"? Did this "market" exist 100 years ago or not? If yes (and it did) then why haven't we been bilingual English-Spanish since day 1? There is conspiracy theory here - just pretty straightforward observation of facts.
- luckys 1y ago
  That seems to have changed in March 2025 via executive order, with English now being the official language of the US https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_Stat... https://www.usa.gov/official-language-of-us https://www.usa.gov/official-language-of-us
- yubblegum 1y ago
  There are and have been pockets in immigrant communities where e.g. older members would live their entire lives in US and never speak a word of English. But conversely, no one expected the rest of us to know Chinese, German, French, Italian, Japanese, Russian, ..., etc. But somehow now we are supposed to accept a sizeable subset of our nation to only speak Spanish. > Assuming someone speaking another language is both a “recent arrival” and working illegally is… something. Apparently it’s not xenophobic, but it’s not a good look. I do not care if it is not a "good look" by some standard. What I care about is cultural and value system continuity and national cohesion.
  - stirfish 1y ago
    >What I care about is cultural and value system continuity and national cohesion. Good news! We share the value of "be cool about it, we're all just trying our best"
halfmatthalfcat 1y ago
You can be an immigrant and xenophobic, they aren’t mutually exclusive.
- ipaddr 1y ago
  Immigrants are more likely to be xenophobic as they move to a less xenophobic place.
Der_Einzige 1y ago
The people who are most xenophobic/against immigrant communities are recent immigrants who pull the latter up for their compatriots right after they ascend. Latino voters swung 20 points towards trump from 2020-2024 after being told that Trump would deport all of their illegal family members. A majority of latino men straight up voted for Trump and Latino women was like 47-53. Legal immigrants hate illegal immigrants. Most legal immigrants are wealthy and well connected and have never had to do the shit jobs that their illegal brothers do. It's pretty hard to legally immigrate without lots of money/skills or at minimum beauty (i.e. for green card marriage). Illegals are usually dirt poor and will do anything for a better life. I'm getting far more willing to defend making English the official language of the USA for this reason. You want to pretend like you're a WASP legal immigrants? Act like one then! BTW - Americans don't see the distinction between "european latino" and "Mestizo". You're all Latinos and are treated the same way by WASPs.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

the_gastropod 1y ago

The U.S. has no official language, and no one who moves here is required to learn English. Especially in NYC, where so many neighborhoods predominantly speak a language that is not English (Brighton Beach, Sunset Park, Flushing, Chinatown, etc.) Assuming someone speaking another language is both a “recent arrival” and working illegally is… something. Apparently it’s not xenophobic, but it’s not a good look.

dboreham 1y ago
There are communities of non-English speaking people here in Montana. They speak a form of German. Hutterites (kind of like Amish).
- yubblegum 1y ago
  Does the New York Times (which is a national paper) have a section in German language? Does it have one in any other non-English language besides Spanish? Why is Spanish singled out? Why was "bilingualism" being promoted so heavily? Meaning no offense, wtf has the Spanish speaking community contributed to American history to get this special perch? So yeah, there are all sorts of little pockets here and there, and grandpas and grandmas of various flavor speaking the old country's tongue but only one was promoted. The phenomena is obviously political in nature and to construe is as anything else, including "prejudice" or "xenophobia", is disengenuous.
  - the_gastropod 1y ago
    What’s the German-speaking population of the United States? What German-speaking lands in the Americas did the United States acquire through violent or financial means? > Meaning no offense, wtf has the Spanish speaking community contributed to American history to get this special perch? About half of the total land area of the US was formerly colonized by the Spanish. What “history” are you referring to?! And what “special perch”? > The phenomena is obviously political in nature and to construe is as anything else, including "prejudice" or "xenophobia", is disengenuous. This is innuendo. Say what you want to say, and don’t couch it behind a passive “political”. Who’s driving what outcome, and for what ends. Go on!
    - yubblegum 1y ago
      The historic arguemnt is lucidrous since NYTimes only recently published in a bilingual mode. Special perch is clear: this is a nation of numerious ethnicities with an equal number of distinct 'mother tongues'. The special perch is the recent push to normalize having an entire subset of the society speak a langauge that many of us do not speak and have no desire to learn.
      - the_gastropod 1y ago
        They’re not equal. There are more Spanish-speakers in the U.S. (and the world, for that matter) than there are German, Estonian, Russian, Croatian, Dutch, Portuguese, Italian, … speakers. You’re ascribing some bizarre conspiracy to basic market dynamics. And again, this is pretty localized. Salt Lake City has less Spanish than Los Angeles. Flushing, Queens has more Mandarin than Spanish or English. It remains unclear who is being harmed here. And what solutions are you advocating for?
        yubblegum 1y ago
        What "market"? Did this "market" exist 100 years ago or not? If yes (and it did) then why haven't we been bilingual English-Spanish since day 1? There is conspiracy theory here - just pretty straightforward observation of facts.
luckys 1y ago
That seems to have changed in March 2025 via executive order, with English now being the official language of the US https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_Stat... https://www.usa.gov/official-language-of-us https://www.usa.gov/official-language-of-us
yubblegum 1y ago
There are and have been pockets in immigrant communities where e.g. older members would live their entire lives in US and never speak a word of English. But conversely, no one expected the rest of us to know Chinese, German, French, Italian, Japanese, Russian, ..., etc. But somehow now we are supposed to accept a sizeable subset of our nation to only speak Spanish. > Assuming someone speaking another language is both a “recent arrival” and working illegally is… something. Apparently it’s not xenophobic, but it’s not a good look. I do not care if it is not a "good look" by some standard. What I care about is cultural and value system continuity and national cohesion.
- stirfish 1y ago
  >What I care about is cultural and value system continuity and national cohesion. Good news! We share the value of "be cool about it, we're all just trying our best"

halfmatthalfcat 1y ago

You can be an immigrant and xenophobic, they aren’t mutually exclusive.

ipaddr 1y ago
Immigrants are more likely to be xenophobic as they move to a less xenophobic place.

Der_Einzige 1y ago

The people who are most xenophobic/against immigrant communities are recent immigrants who pull the latter up for their compatriots right after they ascend. Latino voters swung 20 points towards trump from 2020-2024 after being told that Trump would deport all of their illegal family members. A majority of latino men straight up voted for Trump and Latino women was like 47-53. Legal immigrants hate illegal immigrants. Most legal immigrants are wealthy and well connected and have never had to do the shit jobs that their illegal brothers do. It's pretty hard to legally immigrate without lots of money/skills or at minimum beauty (i.e. for green card marriage). Illegals are usually dirt poor and will do anything for a better life. I'm getting far more willing to defend making English the official language of the USA for this reason. You want to pretend like you're a WASP legal immigrants? Act like one then! BTW - Americans don't see the distinction between "european latino" and "Mestizo". You're all Latinos and are treated the same way by WASPs.