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This sounds very defeatist? I still believe in the European project but it gets hard when you see the current political landscape. That said, I don't think we c

This sounds very defeatist? I still believe in the European project but it gets hard when you see the current political landscape. That said, I don't think we can only put it on spineless bureaucrats, I don't see many countries having bold policies of integration even at the national level.

simianparrot 1y ago
When I'm looking into countries to emigrate to, I don't expect _them_ to take on the burden of integrating _me_, I take that burden of responsibility on myself. Likewise I never understood why we blame ourselves for a lack of effective integration when, particularly in Norway's case, we offer all the services you could want. But you have to _want_ to integrate, we can't force you. And if you don't want to, please leave.
- NeutralForest 1y ago
  > Likewise I never understood why we blame ourselves for a lack of effective integration Because the country of arrival is usually the stronger economic party. You have the capability of emigrating and integrating because you speak multiple languages, have most likely attained high education and you probably have the means to start a new life some place else. Honestly, good for you but not everyone has those benefits. In the case of someone poorer, it might take a significant amount of resources and time they don't have, hence more of the burden being on countries integrating the immigrants. Let's also not kid ourselves, it's a trade for their labor in often bad conditions; not something from the grace of our hearts. > But you have to _want_ to integrate, we can't force you. And if you don't want to, please leave. This is imo a question the EU has struggled with for a long time. You'll want people to have their personal freedoms: culture, religion, language, etc. But you also want a cohesive whole where citizens can live and work together peacefully. This is a much more difficult question than "integrate or get out".
- YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
  I'm an immigrant to the UK. Do you want to tell me what I need to do to "integrate"? Because I have no idea what you may mean by that.

simianparrot 1y ago

When I'm looking into countries to emigrate to, I don't expect _them_ to take on the burden of integrating _me_, I take that burden of responsibility on myself. Likewise I never understood why we blame ourselves for a lack of effective integration when, particularly in Norway's case, we offer all the services you could want. But you have to _want_ to integrate, we can't force you. And if you don't want to, please leave.

NeutralForest 1y ago
> Likewise I never understood why we blame ourselves for a lack of effective integration Because the country of arrival is usually the stronger economic party. You have the capability of emigrating and integrating because you speak multiple languages, have most likely attained high education and you probably have the means to start a new life some place else. Honestly, good for you but not everyone has those benefits. In the case of someone poorer, it might take a significant amount of resources and time they don't have, hence more of the burden being on countries integrating the immigrants. Let's also not kid ourselves, it's a trade for their labor in often bad conditions; not something from the grace of our hearts. > But you have to _want_ to integrate, we can't force you. And if you don't want to, please leave. This is imo a question the EU has struggled with for a long time. You'll want people to have their personal freedoms: culture, religion, language, etc. But you also want a cohesive whole where citizens can live and work together peacefully. This is a much more difficult question than "integrate or get out".
YeGoblynQueenne 1y ago
I'm an immigrant to the UK. Do you want to tell me what I need to do to "integrate"? Because I have no idea what you may mean by that.