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100% I often say to people that the reason for the UK’s loss of culture is not immigration but the fact that we, as British people, stopped being British in pur

100% I often say to people that the reason for the UK’s loss of culture is not immigration but the fact that we, as British people, stopped being British in pursuit of the ‘American dream’. Somewhere along the line we stopped looking to our own previous generations (which include European nations as, you know, we’re Europeans) for cultural identity and started following Hollywood as our cultural oracle. Generations of this has lead to the mess you see unraveling in the UK at the moment.

Earw0rm 1y ago
Yes, this! A few Pakistanis moving in down the road doesn't stop British people practicing British culture. The reason they don't can be summarised as laziness and ignorance. "The pub got turned into a mosque", maybe it did but it wasn't because the Moors invaded fgs. A successful pub gets to carry on being one - if it's not successful, maybe that's because people stopped using it.
- Levitz 1y ago
  >A successful pub gets to carry on being one - if it's not successful, maybe that's because people stopped using it. And pray tell, how does the influx of a muslim, non-alcohol-drinking population, influence this?
  - Earw0rm 1y ago
    Depends how they're influxing. If they're seizing our homes and land by force and taking over our government, sure. But as far as I can see, they're working for the NHS, running restaurants and shops and so on, and buying/renting homes that come up on the market like everyone else. London's Muslim mayor was elected by an absolute majority even though Muslims are only about 12% of the city's population. Nobody is stopping Brits from doing Brit stuff - it's our own fault if we choose not to. Far as I can see, what's done a lot of basic pubs in is a combination of lifestyle changes, people who don't like the smoking ban, and younger people wanting to spend time down the gym instead of drinking.
  - FireBeyond 1y ago
    Are you seriously claiming with a straight face that there are too few pubs in England and that they are a threatened species?
simianparrot 1y ago
Not a single British person I know has ever pursued the "American dream". In fact all of them have historically been far more negative towards America than I have, myself being Norwegian. The UK is large, so maybe either of us are just looking into a small bubble not representative of the whole, but the times I've visited the UK in the past, I didn't see much of what you seem to describe. Perhaps in the very center of London and its shopping malls, but those are not representative of the UK whatsoever.
- UltraSane 1y ago
  British people love to compensate for being so globally irrelevant with an irrational sense of superiority over the US.
gautamcgoel 1y ago
What British values do you think have been abandoned in favor of American values?
agumonkey 1y ago
We all kinda did. There's a clear drift in France too after the 70s. The acceleration of communication, US cultural exports, a strong trend of modernization all led to our current situation. And also part of the reason why there are so many traditionalist movements popping up.
uludag 1y ago
Not only this, I feel if people in the UK somehow were able to travel back in time and encounter "their culture", they'd feel extremely alienated and maybe even feel a level of disdain. The daily prayers, Bible reading, strict Sabbatarianism and religious festivals would seem completely alien. Without a doubt the modern Muslim or asian immigrant, especially after the first generation, are so much closer to the average UK resident than their traditional culture.
DrBazza 1y ago
Following the 'American Dream' in the UK isn't the problem. No one I know in the UK wants that. It's hugely more nuanced than that. Culture requires groups of people with similar views, opinions, and values. And that goes to a very, very, local level. We now have expensive houses, a mobile population, a London-centric economy, and fractured and geographically spread families. The decline in Christianity in the UK probably has something to do with it, and that in turn is loosely correlated with WWI and WWII. That's also another historic factor - families destroyed, and fewer families and so on. And then the elephant in the room - London. Want a job? Move to London or the south east and leave your family behind. Born in the south east? Want to live in the same street as you parents? No chance. Same town? Unlikely. Do you know your neighbours? Maybe. Do you see them in the church any more, or even when you walk down the street? Culture is alive and well outside of London, despite its drain on the rest of the UK. Social, and economic mobility is good, but some of the side effects are only now becoming apparent. Successive short-termist poor governance for decades has been the problem.

Earw0rm 1y ago

Yes, this! A few Pakistanis moving in down the road doesn't stop British people practicing British culture. The reason they don't can be summarised as laziness and ignorance. "The pub got turned into a mosque", maybe it did but it wasn't because the Moors invaded fgs. A successful pub gets to carry on being one - if it's not successful, maybe that's because people stopped using it.

Levitz 1y ago
>A successful pub gets to carry on being one - if it's not successful, maybe that's because people stopped using it. And pray tell, how does the influx of a muslim, non-alcohol-drinking population, influence this?
- Earw0rm 1y ago
  Depends how they're influxing. If they're seizing our homes and land by force and taking over our government, sure. But as far as I can see, they're working for the NHS, running restaurants and shops and so on, and buying/renting homes that come up on the market like everyone else. London's Muslim mayor was elected by an absolute majority even though Muslims are only about 12% of the city's population. Nobody is stopping Brits from doing Brit stuff - it's our own fault if we choose not to. Far as I can see, what's done a lot of basic pubs in is a combination of lifestyle changes, people who don't like the smoking ban, and younger people wanting to spend time down the gym instead of drinking.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Are you seriously claiming with a straight face that there are too few pubs in England and that they are a threatened species?

simianparrot 1y ago

Not a single British person I know has ever pursued the "American dream". In fact all of them have historically been far more negative towards America than I have, myself being Norwegian. The UK is large, so maybe either of us are just looking into a small bubble not representative of the whole, but the times I've visited the UK in the past, I didn't see much of what you seem to describe. Perhaps in the very center of London and its shopping malls, but those are not representative of the UK whatsoever.

UltraSane 1y ago
British people love to compensate for being so globally irrelevant with an irrational sense of superiority over the US.

gautamcgoel 1y ago

What British values do you think have been abandoned in favor of American values?

agumonkey 1y ago

We all kinda did. There's a clear drift in France too after the 70s. The acceleration of communication, US cultural exports, a strong trend of modernization all led to our current situation. And also part of the reason why there are so many traditionalist movements popping up.

uludag 1y ago

Not only this, I feel if people in the UK somehow were able to travel back in time and encounter "their culture", they'd feel extremely alienated and maybe even feel a level of disdain. The daily prayers, Bible reading, strict Sabbatarianism and religious festivals would seem completely alien. Without a doubt the modern Muslim or asian immigrant, especially after the first generation, are so much closer to the average UK resident than their traditional culture.

DrBazza 1y ago

Following the 'American Dream' in the UK isn't the problem. No one I know in the UK wants that. It's hugely more nuanced than that. Culture requires groups of people with similar views, opinions, and values. And that goes to a very, very, local level. We now have expensive houses, a mobile population, a London-centric economy, and fractured and geographically spread families. The decline in Christianity in the UK probably has something to do with it, and that in turn is loosely correlated with WWI and WWII. That's also another historic factor - families destroyed, and fewer families and so on. And then the elephant in the room - London. Want a job? Move to London or the south east and leave your family behind. Born in the south east? Want to live in the same street as you parents? No chance. Same town? Unlikely. Do you know your neighbours? Maybe. Do you see them in the church any more, or even when you walk down the street? Culture is alive and well outside of London, despite its drain on the rest of the UK. Social, and economic mobility is good, but some of the side effects are only now becoming apparent. Successive short-termist poor governance for decades has been the problem.