4 ms·

> But immigration is the only thing that can replenish their workforce. You cannot discount the destabilising potential of immigration, and the lowering of soc

> But immigration is the only thing that can replenish their workforce. You cannot discount the destabilising potential of immigration, and the lowering of societal trust it comes with. As we saw multiple times, integration is the edge case and not the rule. It will be especially harder to integrate people the way the demographic pyramid is looking right now in "developed" countries. I would also question the desire of immigrants to pay for the welfare of the senile of their respective state, given the fact that they are more than likely to feel mistreated and wronged by the western, "developed" countries that will be hosting them. I am an immigrant (expat?). I don't enjoy paying contributions for the welfare of the people who played in a huge role in the reasons I had to emigrate.

simianparrot 1y ago
I appreciate you being honest, but I also don't want people like you to immigrate to my country. How are you so sure of the role our old people played in your reasons for emigrating? Even if you're in the US and from a country the US has actively destabilized, how many of the people on welfare -- old and/or infirm -- were instrumental in the actions that led to the destabilization of your country? How many of these people had any active choice? This is why we need strong vetting of immigrants.
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago
  Apart from the complex topic of political complicity, I am talking about events and actions that the majority of the local population supported. I would of course have to reveal quite a bit about me in order to be more specific. But even if I were an immigrant to the US from Venezuela or any of the tens if not hundreds countries that the US destabilised, I would indeed think of the majority of US's population as complicit. The people that are against such acts seem to always be the minority.
  - simianparrot 1y ago
    Then why would you move there?
  - whodidntante 1y ago
    There are plenty of countries to go to that are not complicit in your home countries issues if your issue is with the US. Russia and China have well above average lifestyles based on PPP. So do many South American countries, as well as Japan, and South Korea and other Asian countries. Also a number of countries in the middle east. Yes, I understand the US is a very very bad country. I am also a very very bad person because I am very grateful, proud, and and supportive of this country for providing my family an opportunity to thrive even though it took decades for my "type" to be accepted and not discriminated against. My grandparents fled from other countries to be here, for a better life. Note that I say "opportunity", because nothing was handed to my grandparents or my parents. They were given opportunity, not a subsidized life. They were also, as many immigrants have been, discriminated against for decades, but never complained or held grudges. I am a huge believer in immigration, but have zero tolerance for those demanding to be supported or who commit crimes or those that choose to come here and bitch about this country. There are plenty of other places to go to.
    - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
      Oh rest assured, I am not in the US. I would never do that. I find the mentality there insufferable. The mentality that you laid bare in your comment. About the land of opportunity, as long as the cost is externalised.
      - whodidntante 1y ago
        The US has a lot of history to deal with - genocide of Native Americans, slavery, treatment of women, to name a few. A number of horrible wars since the aftermath of WW2. We are also going through significant challenges right now - social, political, economic, foreign relationships. We may or may not survive as a country. We may have a positive or adverse effect on the rest of the world as we go through what we must go through. However, the rest of the world is simply not innocent. Europe has a lot to account for. So does Russia, China, Japan. And lets not forget the Islamic and Ottoman empires, which easily matched and in many respects put to shame the slavery, colonization, genocides, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid of the American, European, and Asian empires. Most of the worlds current problems are the result of the collapse of these empires about 100 years ago, payment for the failure of their insufferable mentalities over many centuries. Right now the US is facing payment for its past, the rest of the world is still paying for its past.
AlecSchueler 1y ago
> As we saw multiple times, integration is the edge case and not the rule. Is that true? Are you sure the edge cases where people didn't integrate aren't just bigger stories than the many many people who arrive and live normal boring lives? > question the desire of immigrants to pay for the welfare of the senile of their respective state, given the fact that they are more than likely to feel mistreated and wronged Maybe we could stop wronging and mistreating them? Or is that an important part of our European heritage?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

simianparrot 1y ago

I appreciate you being honest, but I also don't want people like you to immigrate to my country. How are you so sure of the role our old people played in your reasons for emigrating? Even if you're in the US and from a country the US has actively destabilized, how many of the people on welfare -- old and/or infirm -- were instrumental in the actions that led to the destabilization of your country? How many of these people had any active choice? This is why we need strong vetting of immigrants.

4gotunameagain 1y ago
Apart from the complex topic of political complicity, I am talking about events and actions that the majority of the local population supported. I would of course have to reveal quite a bit about me in order to be more specific. But even if I were an immigrant to the US from Venezuela or any of the tens if not hundreds countries that the US destabilised, I would indeed think of the majority of US's population as complicit. The people that are against such acts seem to always be the minority.
- simianparrot 1y ago
  Then why would you move there?
- whodidntante 1y ago
  There are plenty of countries to go to that are not complicit in your home countries issues if your issue is with the US. Russia and China have well above average lifestyles based on PPP. So do many South American countries, as well as Japan, and South Korea and other Asian countries. Also a number of countries in the middle east. Yes, I understand the US is a very very bad country. I am also a very very bad person because I am very grateful, proud, and and supportive of this country for providing my family an opportunity to thrive even though it took decades for my "type" to be accepted and not discriminated against. My grandparents fled from other countries to be here, for a better life. Note that I say "opportunity", because nothing was handed to my grandparents or my parents. They were given opportunity, not a subsidized life. They were also, as many immigrants have been, discriminated against for decades, but never complained or held grudges. I am a huge believer in immigration, but have zero tolerance for those demanding to be supported or who commit crimes or those that choose to come here and bitch about this country. There are plenty of other places to go to.
  - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
    Oh rest assured, I am not in the US. I would never do that. I find the mentality there insufferable. The mentality that you laid bare in your comment. About the land of opportunity, as long as the cost is externalised.
    - whodidntante 1y ago
      The US has a lot of history to deal with - genocide of Native Americans, slavery, treatment of women, to name a few. A number of horrible wars since the aftermath of WW2. We are also going through significant challenges right now - social, political, economic, foreign relationships. We may or may not survive as a country. We may have a positive or adverse effect on the rest of the world as we go through what we must go through. However, the rest of the world is simply not innocent. Europe has a lot to account for. So does Russia, China, Japan. And lets not forget the Islamic and Ottoman empires, which easily matched and in many respects put to shame the slavery, colonization, genocides, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid of the American, European, and Asian empires. Most of the worlds current problems are the result of the collapse of these empires about 100 years ago, payment for the failure of their insufferable mentalities over many centuries. Right now the US is facing payment for its past, the rest of the world is still paying for its past.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

> As we saw multiple times, integration is the edge case and not the rule. Is that true? Are you sure the edge cases where people didn't integrate aren't just bigger stories than the many many people who arrive and live normal boring lives? > question the desire of immigrants to pay for the welfare of the senile of their respective state, given the fact that they are more than likely to feel mistreated and wronged Maybe we could stop wronging and mistreating them? Or is that an important part of our European heritage?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]