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Exactly and I'm glad to see this the top comment. I live in Denmark. I am Danish. Too many people nurse fantasies of the Nordics as some kind of socialist utop

Exactly and I'm glad to see this the top comment. I live in Denmark. I am Danish. Too many people nurse fantasies of the Nordics as some kind of socialist utopia. The fact is Denmark grows more corrupt by the day. They keep pushing the retirement age so I will be working until I'm 72. Healthcare quality has been dropping for more than 40 years now. The wealthy own the majority of land. We are currently home to a government that is leading the EU in its push for a surveillance mandate that is frankly terrifying in its scope. That same government pushed through the most garbage mega-project I have personally ever witnessed—that we the taxpayers are supposed to fund—despite voter outcry. Digital tenders get sold in backroom deals to a single company that is so ethically bankrupt they've been called out numerous times for workplace violations by our unions. We're all fucked in the global slide toward authoritarianism and the wealthy's capture of the world economy. And while they get fat supping on our labor we're at each other's throats for who can be crowned the greatest victim.

a0-prw 1y ago
Yes, but at least Mette Frederiksen got her photo-op in an F16 cockpit with Zelensky!
- fifilura 1y ago
  Supporting Ukraine against Moscovite aggression is important for all of Europe. Otherwise next they will come for other countries in Europe, as proven by them many times before. This is extremely little money compare to the alternative.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - wolvesechoes 1y ago
    > important for all of Europe What makes it important for Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy or Liechtenstein?
    - fifilura 1y ago
      "Lisbon should be Russian says Kremlin propagandist" https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2023-11-28/lisbon-should-be-russian-says-kremlin-propagandist/83689 https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2023-11-28/lisbon-shoul... If Russia.cobquers Ukraine they will use the people of Ukraine against the rest of Europe.
      - wolvesechoes 1y ago
        But you should be aware that russian foreign policy is not decided in the television. TV propaganda serves internal purposes. And there is a policy and strategy on Kremlin, not just crazy evil Putin trying to destroy the world of Good. Contrary to hysteric media narrative, decision makers in Kremlin are not mad, crazy or whatever, and believing this brings more harm than good. Russia isn't strong enough to seriously threaten Western Europe, and they are aware of it. Moreover, they have not much to gain by trying to conquer Lisbon versus monstrous costs they would need to bear, even if we ignore the fact they wouldn't be able to not only reach Lisbon, but Berlin as well. Europe is no longer a center of the world, regardless if we like it or not. That doesn't mean Russia cannot harm interests of countries of Western Europe, carry out sabotage acts, sow and fuel internal strife etc. They can, and they do. But it is not an existential threat.
        steveBK123 1y ago
        Whats the endgame of the "Russia isn't quite as bad/powerful/ambitious as you think, just let them take Ukraine" posture though? Where do the Baltics and Poland stand in such a scenario? And in 5-20 years when they've encroached there, what of Germany? Do we let them just slowly digest Eastern Europe all over again?
        wolvesechoes 1y ago
        > just let them take Ukraine Eh, I always forget it is kinda pointless to discuss politics here. Never stated that they should just take Ukraine, or they are not "as bad". And please spare me lectures about lingering doom of the Easter Europe - I live in Poland, 20 km from the Ukrainian border. I am aware of stakes, especially considering idiocy of my government. What I objected to is a proposition that "Europe" is some political monolith, and all countries here are equally threatened by Russia. Some European countries are under serious threat (mine among them), others are less threatened, and some are not threatened in any serious manner. Lack of understanding this causes people to be constantly surprised that things look as they look.
miohtama 1y ago
It's unlikely you will have any retirement except your own savings, as the unfunded pension funds start to collapse globally. Maybe Danish is different but you can check from local sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- tim333 1y ago
  I think it will be ok due to two factors. One even if funds go bust care of old people is basically done by young people chipping in and helping and that can go on. Two, regarding aging populations, against that we'll have AI and robots doing stuff before most people retire.
  - coldtea 1y ago
    >One even if funds go bust care of old people is basically done by young people chipping in and helping and that can go on. If you mean "young people" in general, the fertility rate ensures they'll be less and less, and thus a heavier and heavier burdern to chip in for older people. If you mean young people that are family, an increased (over 30%) number of old people won't have children or will have estranged children, and no help. As for "AI and robots" don't bet on those either. It takes people to maintain an economy and an infrastructure that makes and deploys robots at any significant scale, and those will be scarce, and the demographic hit will make both productivity and consumption contract too. Societies increasingly can't even fix potholes and basic public services.
    - miohtama 1y ago
      Whether or not there are enough young people does not matter. The plan was to have fully funded pensions, bootstrapping them after the start. You cannot have infinite growth any case, as eventually we run out of space and resources. It must come to end at some decade. However funding pensions full was never executed. It was too easy for politicians not to pass taxes, social benefit costs and such to do this, because boomers would have complained decades ago when they were still in the fullest earning potential.
mpweiher 1y ago
> the most garbage mega-project I have personally ever witnessed Which project was that?
- agurk 1y ago
  They probably mean Lynetteholmen, which is a giant artificial peninsula to be built on reclaimed land off Copenhagen. Curiously there's no English wiki page for it, but machine translation is good these days: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynetteholmen https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynetteholmen
  - emptysongglass 1y ago
    That's the one! Here's a good overview by a Dane on its folly: https://youtu.be/K4icpF0S5BM?si=zjB2qkB-wy-VQu58 https://youtu.be/K4icpF0S5BM?si=zjB2qkB-wy-VQu58
    - gugugaga1 1y ago
      [dead]
      - emptysongglass 1y ago
        I said a good overview. Many experts have given their analysis on why Lynetteholmen sucks including environmental scientists [1]. The very fact that the environmental assessments were done piecemeal [2] plainly demonstrates the politicians responsible for this mega-project disaster knew exactly how bad it was. [1] https://www.dn.dk/nyheder/forskere-i-skarp-kritik-af-miljovurdering-af-lynetteholm/ https://www.dn.dk/nyheder/forskere-i-skarp-kritik-af-miljovu... [2] https://dm.dk/bio/alle-artikler/groenne-byer-skov-og-landskaber/miljoeprofessor-kritiserer-anlaegsloven-til-lynetteholmen/ https://dm.dk/bio/alle-artikler/groenne-byer-skov-og-landska...
- undebuggable 1y ago
  I guess the Danish mega project is kamelåså.
Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
> Too many people nurse fantasies of the Nordics as some kind of socialist utopia. Yes pretty much, and hello form Norway.
- Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
  rather than down-voting opinions you don't like. You could tell me why I am wrong.
pendenthistory 1y ago
I've been heavily saving for retirement from the day I started working, and approaching FIRE before 40 (living in the Nordics). I've been telling some close friends that even if they don't aim for early retirement, they need to at least have a backup option for regular retirement, but they can't seem to sympathize enough with their 70 year old self who is forced to keep working. And who is going to hire a 70 year old human in 30 years? What economic value could they possibly provide in 2055? Everyone here needs to make money and save everything they can right now. If you're not saving 50%+ of your income you AGMI
- tmtvl 1y ago
  I only know one of those initialisms. FIRE -> Financial Independency, Retire Early. AGMI -> Are Gonna Make It?
  - jackothy 1y ago
    The usual one is "NGMI" (Not Gonna Make It) But you just have to assume based on context here that he intends to say "Aren't Gonna Make It"
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I can tell from Germany, maybe some will hire, because unless they can replace workers with robots, like it is happening in some supermarkets, they will get whatever they can. It doesn't come up often, but I have seen a decent amount of 70+ people doing what they can, as cashiers, kiosks, hospitals, doctor offices, bus drivers,...or in general any job where youth isn't into applying for learning on the job, or even so where demand isn't getting fulfilled.
  - coldtea 1y ago
    >I can tell from Germany, maybe some will hire, because unless they can replace workers with robots, like it is happening in some supermarkets, they will get whatever they can. What's more likely going forward is that they'll downscale their operations in a contracting economy, than hire 70 years olds or needing robots for the same jobs. And if it needs be, they'll get immigrants for most jobs.

a0-prw 1y ago

Yes, but at least Mette Frederiksen got her photo-op in an F16 cockpit with Zelensky!

fifilura 1y ago
Supporting Ukraine against Moscovite aggression is important for all of Europe. Otherwise next they will come for other countries in Europe, as proven by them many times before. This is extremely little money compare to the alternative.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- wolvesechoes 1y ago
  > important for all of Europe What makes it important for Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy or Liechtenstein?
  - fifilura 1y ago
    "Lisbon should be Russian says Kremlin propagandist" https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2023-11-28/lisbon-should-be-russian-says-kremlin-propagandist/83689 https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2023-11-28/lisbon-shoul... If Russia.cobquers Ukraine they will use the people of Ukraine against the rest of Europe.
    - wolvesechoes 1y ago
      But you should be aware that russian foreign policy is not decided in the television. TV propaganda serves internal purposes. And there is a policy and strategy on Kremlin, not just crazy evil Putin trying to destroy the world of Good. Contrary to hysteric media narrative, decision makers in Kremlin are not mad, crazy or whatever, and believing this brings more harm than good. Russia isn't strong enough to seriously threaten Western Europe, and they are aware of it. Moreover, they have not much to gain by trying to conquer Lisbon versus monstrous costs they would need to bear, even if we ignore the fact they wouldn't be able to not only reach Lisbon, but Berlin as well. Europe is no longer a center of the world, regardless if we like it or not. That doesn't mean Russia cannot harm interests of countries of Western Europe, carry out sabotage acts, sow and fuel internal strife etc. They can, and they do. But it is not an existential threat.
      - steveBK123 1y ago
        Whats the endgame of the "Russia isn't quite as bad/powerful/ambitious as you think, just let them take Ukraine" posture though? Where do the Baltics and Poland stand in such a scenario? And in 5-20 years when they've encroached there, what of Germany? Do we let them just slowly digest Eastern Europe all over again?
        wolvesechoes 1y ago
        > just let them take Ukraine Eh, I always forget it is kinda pointless to discuss politics here. Never stated that they should just take Ukraine, or they are not "as bad". And please spare me lectures about lingering doom of the Easter Europe - I live in Poland, 20 km from the Ukrainian border. I am aware of stakes, especially considering idiocy of my government. What I objected to is a proposition that "Europe" is some political monolith, and all countries here are equally threatened by Russia. Some European countries are under serious threat (mine among them), others are less threatened, and some are not threatened in any serious manner. Lack of understanding this causes people to be constantly surprised that things look as they look.

miohtama 1y ago

It's unlikely you will have any retirement except your own savings, as the unfunded pension funds start to collapse globally. Maybe Danish is different but you can check from local sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_crisis

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
tim333 1y ago
I think it will be ok due to two factors. One even if funds go bust care of old people is basically done by young people chipping in and helping and that can go on. Two, regarding aging populations, against that we'll have AI and robots doing stuff before most people retire.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >One even if funds go bust care of old people is basically done by young people chipping in and helping and that can go on. If you mean "young people" in general, the fertility rate ensures they'll be less and less, and thus a heavier and heavier burdern to chip in for older people. If you mean young people that are family, an increased (over 30%) number of old people won't have children or will have estranged children, and no help. As for "AI and robots" don't bet on those either. It takes people to maintain an economy and an infrastructure that makes and deploys robots at any significant scale, and those will be scarce, and the demographic hit will make both productivity and consumption contract too. Societies increasingly can't even fix potholes and basic public services.
  - miohtama 1y ago
    Whether or not there are enough young people does not matter. The plan was to have fully funded pensions, bootstrapping them after the start. You cannot have infinite growth any case, as eventually we run out of space and resources. It must come to end at some decade. However funding pensions full was never executed. It was too easy for politicians not to pass taxes, social benefit costs and such to do this, because boomers would have complained decades ago when they were still in the fullest earning potential.

mpweiher 1y ago

> the most garbage mega-project I have personally ever witnessed Which project was that?

agurk 1y ago
They probably mean Lynetteholmen, which is a giant artificial peninsula to be built on reclaimed land off Copenhagen. Curiously there's no English wiki page for it, but machine translation is good these days: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynetteholmen https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynetteholmen
- emptysongglass 1y ago
  That's the one! Here's a good overview by a Dane on its folly: https://youtu.be/K4icpF0S5BM?si=zjB2qkB-wy-VQu58 https://youtu.be/K4icpF0S5BM?si=zjB2qkB-wy-VQu58
  - gugugaga1 1y ago
    [dead]
    - emptysongglass 1y ago
      I said a good overview. Many experts have given their analysis on why Lynetteholmen sucks including environmental scientists [1]. The very fact that the environmental assessments were done piecemeal [2] plainly demonstrates the politicians responsible for this mega-project disaster knew exactly how bad it was. [1] https://www.dn.dk/nyheder/forskere-i-skarp-kritik-af-miljovurdering-af-lynetteholm/ https://www.dn.dk/nyheder/forskere-i-skarp-kritik-af-miljovu... [2] https://dm.dk/bio/alle-artikler/groenne-byer-skov-og-landskaber/miljoeprofessor-kritiserer-anlaegsloven-til-lynetteholmen/ https://dm.dk/bio/alle-artikler/groenne-byer-skov-og-landska...
undebuggable 1y ago
I guess the Danish mega project is kamelåså.

Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago

> Too many people nurse fantasies of the Nordics as some kind of socialist utopia. Yes pretty much, and hello form Norway.

Atomic_Torrfisk 1y ago
rather than down-voting opinions you don't like. You could tell me why I am wrong.

pendenthistory 1y ago

I've been heavily saving for retirement from the day I started working, and approaching FIRE before 40 (living in the Nordics). I've been telling some close friends that even if they don't aim for early retirement, they need to at least have a backup option for regular retirement, but they can't seem to sympathize enough with their 70 year old self who is forced to keep working. And who is going to hire a 70 year old human in 30 years? What economic value could they possibly provide in 2055? Everyone here needs to make money and save everything they can right now. If you're not saving 50%+ of your income you AGMI

tmtvl 1y ago
I only know one of those initialisms. FIRE -> Financial Independency, Retire Early. AGMI -> Are Gonna Make It?
- jackothy 1y ago
  The usual one is "NGMI" (Not Gonna Make It) But you just have to assume based on context here that he intends to say "Aren't Gonna Make It"
pjmlp 1y ago
I can tell from Germany, maybe some will hire, because unless they can replace workers with robots, like it is happening in some supermarkets, they will get whatever they can. It doesn't come up often, but I have seen a decent amount of 70+ people doing what they can, as cashiers, kiosks, hospitals, doctor offices, bus drivers,...or in general any job where youth isn't into applying for learning on the job, or even so where demand isn't getting fulfilled.
- coldtea 1y ago
  >I can tell from Germany, maybe some will hire, because unless they can replace workers with robots, like it is happening in some supermarkets, they will get whatever they can. What's more likely going forward is that they'll downscale their operations in a contracting economy, than hire 70 years olds or needing robots for the same jobs. And if it needs be, they'll get immigrants for most jobs.