3 ms·

Not just that, a human would have stopped for the school bus as required by law. So the errors are (1) not stopping the car for the school bus, (2) running over

Not just that, a human would have stopped for the school bus as required by law. So the errors are (1) not stopping the car for the school bus, (2) running over the kid, and (3) not detecting that it ran over a kid.

insane_dreamer 1y ago
The problem is that this software has to be incredibly fault-tolerant, and with so much complexity that is extremely difficult. A 99.9% accuracy rate isn't good enough because I might kill a child for every 1000 school buses I pass. It's why we still have pilots in planes even if computers do a lot more of the work than before.
- breadwinner 1y ago
  I have taken lots of rides in Waymo, and it has always been smooth. So it is possible. The problem with Tesla is that its CEO lays down dogmatic rules, such as humans only need eyes to drive, so his cars will only have cameras, no LiDAR. He needs to accept that robot cars cannot drive the way humans do. Robot cars can drive better than humans, but they have to do it in their own way.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - insane_dreamer 1y ago
    Taxis are different. I might be willing to take a robotaxi because if something does happen it's not my fault. Same with a bus or train. But I won't trust FSD on my own car (LIDAR or no LIDAR), except in certain circumstances like highway driving, because if something did happen, I'd be at fault even if it was the FSD that failed.
    - breadwinner 1y ago
      > I'd be at fault even if it was the FSD that failed Unless you're driving a Mercedes with Drive Pilot [1], in which case Mercedes accepts liability [2]. Drive Pilot is not FSD yet, but presumably as it acquires more capabilities Mercedes will continue their policy of accepting liability. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot [2] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...
- ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
  > A 99.9% accuracy rate isn't good enough because I might kill a child for every 1000 school buses I pass You don't need a high level of accuracy for that - the rule is to not overtake a school bus, so that would equate to one illegal overtake for every 1000 (stopped) buses encountered. Also, not every illegal bus overtake would necessarily put a child in immediate danger.
  - insane_dreamer 1y ago
    You could encounter a stopped bus every day on your commute. You certainly need that accuracy level for critical events.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

The problem is that this software has to be incredibly fault-tolerant, and with so much complexity that is extremely difficult. A 99.9% accuracy rate isn't good enough because I might kill a child for every 1000 school buses I pass. It's why we still have pilots in planes even if computers do a lot more of the work than before.

breadwinner 1y ago
I have taken lots of rides in Waymo, and it has always been smooth. So it is possible. The problem with Tesla is that its CEO lays down dogmatic rules, such as humans only need eyes to drive, so his cars will only have cameras, no LiDAR. He needs to accept that robot cars cannot drive the way humans do. Robot cars can drive better than humans, but they have to do it in their own way.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  Taxis are different. I might be willing to take a robotaxi because if something does happen it's not my fault. Same with a bus or train. But I won't trust FSD on my own car (LIDAR or no LIDAR), except in certain circumstances like highway driving, because if something did happen, I'd be at fault even if it was the FSD that failed.
  - breadwinner 1y ago
    > I'd be at fault even if it was the FSD that failed Unless you're driving a Mercedes with Drive Pilot [1], in which case Mercedes accepts liability [2]. Drive Pilot is not FSD yet, but presumably as it acquires more capabilities Mercedes will continue their policy of accepting liability. [1] https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot https://www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot [2] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-mercedes-drivepilot-causes-a-crash/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...
ndsipa_pomu 1y ago
> A 99.9% accuracy rate isn't good enough because I might kill a child for every 1000 school buses I pass You don't need a high level of accuracy for that - the rule is to not overtake a school bus, so that would equate to one illegal overtake for every 1000 (stopped) buses encountered. Also, not every illegal bus overtake would necessarily put a child in immediate danger.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  You could encounter a stopped bus every day on your commute. You certainly need that accuracy level for critical events.