3 ms·

it's an often heard cliché at this point, but trumpism is a cult, no logic anywhere in there. I doubt your response will lead to any understanding. Recently so

it's an often heard cliché at this point, but trumpism is a cult, no logic anywhere in there. I doubt your response will lead to any understanding. Recently someone commented to me that the whole point of the tariffs is to curb consumerism in the United States, without further explanation when asked where they got that outlandish idea from. There is no point in arguing anymore, it is literally a waste of time...it's so sad to see obviously intelligent people fall for for this, even against their own interest as you mentioned.

jacquesm 1y ago
Mind boggling, really. And scary too.
rayiner 1y ago
I'd respectfully submit that the people who are displaying illogical and cultish thinking are the ones who cling to this narrative of "racism" about a guy who just won an election with a majority of naturalized citizens and non-white voters under 26 of both genders: https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%20Research%20Retrospective.pdf https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%2.... The man is single-handedly eliminating racially polarized voting in this country. There's so much to criticize Trump about! A lot of the COVID-era inflation was Trump's fault thanks to those Trump checks. You could provide a stirring defense of free trade. RJK, Jr. is a kook! Anything that doesn't put you in the untenable position of arguing that the non-whites in the U.S. aren't as smart as you in knowing their own interests.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  > The man is single-handedly eliminating racially polarized voting in this country. Ok, so you're just trolling. Fine. It is not funny. > Anything that doesn't put you in the untenable position of arguing that the non-whites in the U.S. aren't as smart as you in knowing their own interests. I have six months of evidence and I think that is enough. I'll happily collect another 6 months and we'll see how you are going to twist to justify whatever they'll do between now and then. Prediction: it won't be good. Best of luck.
  - pstuart 1y ago
    It's clear that evidence doesn't matter with these people, they'll twist and turn, evade and elude to no end. I find the exact same reaction in anti-vaxxers and people of faith. Try to get a religious person to recognize the folly of their faith -- it only makes them stronger. I think there's two paths of resistance that might help: 1. Concise messaging 2. Mockery and humor For #1 the problem is that most messaging about issues of concern require some nuance and context, but making people think pretty much a fool's errand. The Right has mastered the art of simple messaging the carries water for them and in some cases, literally defines the debate. A prime example of this is anti-abortionists labeling themselves as "Pro-life". Who doesn't love life? And babies? Then there's "entitlements" for public insurance programs. Death taxes for estate taxes. And for our esteemed council in this debate, "Law and Order". And so on... I don't have any easy or immediate remedy here, but I believe this path needs to be followed to help sway hearts and minds. And for #2 (poop!), most people are vulnerable to the sting of mockery, certainly evidenced by how Diaper Don himself lashes out when made fun of. We need more of that, and more for the Deplorables who worship him. Yes, there needs to be a parallel track of trying to be nice and inviting, but we are literally at war for the survival of democracy in the United States (the civil war never ended -- the south had their fingers crossed when they surrendered). Another unfortunate note: this war is also waged by religious fundamentalists (and white nationalists), and while I respect an individual's right to their own worship, we should be vigilant in pointing out that: "Religion is like a penis. It's nice to have one and fine to be proud of. Don't whip it out in public or shove it down someone else's throat"

jacquesm 1y ago

Mind boggling, really. And scary too.

rayiner 1y ago

I'd respectfully submit that the people who are displaying illogical and cultish thinking are the ones who cling to this narrative of "racism" about a guy who just won an election with a majority of naturalized citizens and non-white voters under 26 of both genders: https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%20Research%20Retrospective.pdf https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%2.... The man is single-handedly eliminating racially polarized voting in this country. There's so much to criticize Trump about! A lot of the COVID-era inflation was Trump's fault thanks to those Trump checks. You could provide a stirring defense of free trade. RJK, Jr. is a kook! Anything that doesn't put you in the untenable position of arguing that the non-whites in the U.S. aren't as smart as you in knowing their own interests.

jacquesm 1y ago
> The man is single-handedly eliminating racially polarized voting in this country. Ok, so you're just trolling. Fine. It is not funny. > Anything that doesn't put you in the untenable position of arguing that the non-whites in the U.S. aren't as smart as you in knowing their own interests. I have six months of evidence and I think that is enough. I'll happily collect another 6 months and we'll see how you are going to twist to justify whatever they'll do between now and then. Prediction: it won't be good. Best of luck.
- pstuart 1y ago
  It's clear that evidence doesn't matter with these people, they'll twist and turn, evade and elude to no end. I find the exact same reaction in anti-vaxxers and people of faith. Try to get a religious person to recognize the folly of their faith -- it only makes them stronger. I think there's two paths of resistance that might help: 1. Concise messaging 2. Mockery and humor For #1 the problem is that most messaging about issues of concern require some nuance and context, but making people think pretty much a fool's errand. The Right has mastered the art of simple messaging the carries water for them and in some cases, literally defines the debate. A prime example of this is anti-abortionists labeling themselves as "Pro-life". Who doesn't love life? And babies? Then there's "entitlements" for public insurance programs. Death taxes for estate taxes. And for our esteemed council in this debate, "Law and Order". And so on... I don't have any easy or immediate remedy here, but I believe this path needs to be followed to help sway hearts and minds. And for #2 (poop!), most people are vulnerable to the sting of mockery, certainly evidenced by how Diaper Don himself lashes out when made fun of. We need more of that, and more for the Deplorables who worship him. Yes, there needs to be a parallel track of trying to be nice and inviting, but we are literally at war for the survival of democracy in the United States (the civil war never ended -- the south had their fingers crossed when they surrendered). Another unfortunate note: this war is also waged by religious fundamentalists (and white nationalists), and while I respect an individual's right to their own worship, we should be vigilant in pointing out that: "Religion is like a penis. It's nice to have one and fine to be proud of. Don't whip it out in public or shove it down someone else's throat"