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A hair trigger is unsuitable for police security use because guns are routinely drawn on people as a threat to exact compliance. A hair trigger is unsuitable f

A hair trigger is unsuitable for police security use because guns are routinely drawn on people as a threat to exact compliance. A hair trigger is unsuitable for combat use because of the "errybody be muzzle sweeping errybody up in here" nature of combat. Those two uses are 99.99% of what the air force needs its pistols to do. They could give it better tolerances so it has a "good trigger" without "hair trigger" but that will cost a lot of money. Or they could give it an absurd trigger pull like duty guns had in the "good old days" but that will cost just as much money for equivalent results because you'll need to train the force more to get the same accuracy of fire. Additionally, with the fairly sloppy nature of these guns and the fundamental nature of how handguns work, it's not unforeseeable that they do get clapped out to the point of just going off if you bump the slide right as they age since they're so close to that as is. Considering how many people need to be trained/equipped and how often the air force fires sidearms in "real" situations both of these solutions are way, way, way more expensive than a few bodies.

jibe 1y ago
1: It isn't a hair trigger, it is still a 6 to 6.5 pound pull. 2: The trigger is what it is, the military and police departments chose it for what was. I agree, the police in particular, should use a gun that takes more effort to fire. But don't blame Sig for this, it isn't a design flaw.
- jakogut 1y ago
  The P320 absolutely has design and manufacturing flaws. The P250 fire control unit was shoehorned into a striker fired pistol when they should've gone back to the drawing board like they did with the P365, which doesn't have these issues. There are also manufacturing issues with intermingling parts with different geometries intended for different calibers and building guns with the wrong parts, such as installing a 10mm Auto/.45 ACP takedown safety level in a 9mm gun, or installing a metal injection molded firing pin safety that's out of spec, worn, or contributes to tolerance stacking in such a way that the gun becomes unsafe.
  - jibe 1y ago
    These are all good theories. Someone should demonstrate it if true. When there were drop safe questions, it was able to be reproduced, and there was a change to address it. Show an uncommanded discharge, show why it happened. Then you have a design or manufacturing flaw.
    - jakogut 1y ago
      I think the problem is that there's not a single identifiable problem. There's a series of related problems caused by manufacturing and engineering decisions that lead to parts not interoperating as designed. For example, Sig offered a "voluntary upgrade" to fix the well documented drop safety flaw with the P320, and there's video proof of the same guns going off still in holsters. Sig is going to be playing whackamole fixing these issues if they ever admit to it, so they won't.
      - jibe 1y ago
        I mean demonstrate it on a gun that has had an uncommanded discharge. Make it happen again, and then identify the problem on that specific gun. As you point out, the drop issue was well documented, and then fixed. So far, no one has identified a cause for the possible uncommanded discharge.
        sarlalian 1y ago
        It really doesn’t matter at this point whether someone is able to document it or not. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of uncommanded discharge (yes the plural of anecdote is not data), and the reputational damage to the gun and the brand has already happened. If I were in the market for another handgun at this point, I would personally skip the Sig, because even at a %0.001 chance that this is a legit problem, my risk tolerance around firearms is pretty low, so I’ll just spend more and get a Glock where I’m certain it’s safe.

jibe 1y ago

1: It isn't a hair trigger, it is still a 6 to 6.5 pound pull. 2: The trigger is what it is, the military and police departments chose it for what was. I agree, the police in particular, should use a gun that takes more effort to fire. But don't blame Sig for this, it isn't a design flaw.

jakogut 1y ago
The P320 absolutely has design and manufacturing flaws. The P250 fire control unit was shoehorned into a striker fired pistol when they should've gone back to the drawing board like they did with the P365, which doesn't have these issues. There are also manufacturing issues with intermingling parts with different geometries intended for different calibers and building guns with the wrong parts, such as installing a 10mm Auto/.45 ACP takedown safety level in a 9mm gun, or installing a metal injection molded firing pin safety that's out of spec, worn, or contributes to tolerance stacking in such a way that the gun becomes unsafe.
- jibe 1y ago
  These are all good theories. Someone should demonstrate it if true. When there were drop safe questions, it was able to be reproduced, and there was a change to address it. Show an uncommanded discharge, show why it happened. Then you have a design or manufacturing flaw.
  - jakogut 1y ago
    I think the problem is that there's not a single identifiable problem. There's a series of related problems caused by manufacturing and engineering decisions that lead to parts not interoperating as designed. For example, Sig offered a "voluntary upgrade" to fix the well documented drop safety flaw with the P320, and there's video proof of the same guns going off still in holsters. Sig is going to be playing whackamole fixing these issues if they ever admit to it, so they won't.
    - jibe 1y ago
      I mean demonstrate it on a gun that has had an uncommanded discharge. Make it happen again, and then identify the problem on that specific gun. As you point out, the drop issue was well documented, and then fixed. So far, no one has identified a cause for the possible uncommanded discharge.
      - sarlalian 1y ago
        It really doesn’t matter at this point whether someone is able to document it or not. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence of uncommanded discharge (yes the plural of anecdote is not data), and the reputational damage to the gun and the brand has already happened. If I were in the market for another handgun at this point, I would personally skip the Sig, because even at a %0.001 chance that this is a legit problem, my risk tolerance around firearms is pretty low, so I’ll just spend more and get a Glock where I’m certain it’s safe.