3 ms·

N150 isn't much of an improvement, I don't expect one more generation to be a crucial difference.

sirn 1y ago
N150 is still using the old Gracemont core (same as N100, but with higher clock). From there, there is Crestmont (node-shrink Gracemont in Meteor Lake), and Skymont (in Lunar Lake/Arrow Lake), whose performance is already comparable to that of Golden Cove (12th Gen P-core). Chips and Cheese has written a very detailed analysis for Skymont[1] if you're interested. [1]: https://chipsandcheese.com/p/skymont-intels-e-cores-reach-for-the-sky https://chipsandcheese.com/p/skymont-intels-e-cores-reach-fo...
DeepYogurt 1y ago
Core generations not product. The n150 is a clock bumped n100.
adrian_b 1y ago
The rumors are that there will be no true successor for N150. Instead of that, there will be a cut down variant of Panther Lake, named Wildcat Lake, with 2 P-cores and 4 E-cores. That will clearly have a much better performance than N150, including a much better Xe3 GPU, but it seems very unlikely that Intel will sell it at the low prices that made the N-series so attractive. I assume that Wildcat Lake will be priced similarly to N350, so it will be available in computers closer in price to $300 than to the $100 that can get you an N100 or N150 computer.
- transpute 1y ago
  > rumors are that there will be no true successor for N150 N100/N150 reinvigorated the x86 ecosystem with price/perf of Arm plus compatibility with existing software. > Wildcat Lake will be .. closer in price to $300 That price and P-core power budget would compete with compatible x86 AMD Ryzen instead of incompatible Arm/RISC-V boards. Why would Intel surrender a long-sought advantage over Arm, after they finally succeeded with capable E-cores?
  - baq 1y ago
    Intel needs to stop being run by accountants, otherwise accountants will be the ones turning off the lights one last time, and soon...
    - transpute 1y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44463813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44463813 > It's genuinely crazy how much better value an N100 is and how much better it works out of the box than a Pi for anything.. that doesn't need to talk to electronics/GPIO.. Low cost x86_64 solutions beat the pants off ARM in the PPPITA (performance per pain in the arse) department. The Raspberry Pi software ecosystem advantage nopes the moment x86 shows up to the party. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44465319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44465319 > Intel N150 is the first consumer Atom CPU (in 15 years!) to include TXT/DRTM for measured system launch with owner-managed keys. At every system boot, this can confirm that immutable components (anything from BIOS+config to the kernel to immutable partitions) have the expected binary hash/tree.
      - baq 1y ago
        I completely agree, got an N100 minipc server at home myself which replaced an rpi 4. Fantastic value. My point is Intel's accountants have a history of seeing 'fantastic value' as 'margins too low', which reduces the margin of error in engineering to ~0.
        transpute 1y ago
        N100/N150 (unintentionally?) fueled a Cambrian explosion in mini PCs. It needs a few more years of OEM experimentation with form factors and ISV software stacks to identify new vertical markets, before trying to harvest high margin segments. It's too early and too successful to abandon the category now. If they must have a $300 price point, offer one with many E-cores and zero P-cores. I wonder how long Twin Lake N150 will be sold, if there is no successor, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241636/intel-processor-n150-6m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241636/...
- hnuser123456 1y ago
  If it's got 2 P-cores, it would be more like an updated core 3 100u, it'll likely have 20 rather than 9 pcie lanes, dual channel ram, thunderbolt, etc, and be priced like the nuc 15 pro, around $400.
  - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
    that would be a shame. the 150-250 price range is so much better
    - hnuser123456 1y ago
      I found an MSI on sale for 300 with one, but yeah the price gap is way too big.

sirn 1y ago

N150 is still using the old Gracemont core (same as N100, but with higher clock). From there, there is Crestmont (node-shrink Gracemont in Meteor Lake), and Skymont (in Lunar Lake/Arrow Lake), whose performance is already comparable to that of Golden Cove (12th Gen P-core). Chips and Cheese has written a very detailed analysis for Skymont[1] if you're interested. [1]: https://chipsandcheese.com/p/skymont-intels-e-cores-reach-for-the-sky https://chipsandcheese.com/p/skymont-intels-e-cores-reach-fo...

DeepYogurt 1y ago

Core generations not product. The n150 is a clock bumped n100.

adrian_b 1y ago

The rumors are that there will be no true successor for N150. Instead of that, there will be a cut down variant of Panther Lake, named Wildcat Lake, with 2 P-cores and 4 E-cores. That will clearly have a much better performance than N150, including a much better Xe3 GPU, but it seems very unlikely that Intel will sell it at the low prices that made the N-series so attractive. I assume that Wildcat Lake will be priced similarly to N350, so it will be available in computers closer in price to $300 than to the $100 that can get you an N100 or N150 computer.

transpute 1y ago
> rumors are that there will be no true successor for N150 N100/N150 reinvigorated the x86 ecosystem with price/perf of Arm plus compatibility with existing software. > Wildcat Lake will be .. closer in price to $300 That price and P-core power budget would compete with compatible x86 AMD Ryzen instead of incompatible Arm/RISC-V boards. Why would Intel surrender a long-sought advantage over Arm, after they finally succeeded with capable E-cores?
- baq 1y ago
  Intel needs to stop being run by accountants, otherwise accountants will be the ones turning off the lights one last time, and soon...
  - transpute 1y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44463813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44463813 > It's genuinely crazy how much better value an N100 is and how much better it works out of the box than a Pi for anything.. that doesn't need to talk to electronics/GPIO.. Low cost x86_64 solutions beat the pants off ARM in the PPPITA (performance per pain in the arse) department. The Raspberry Pi software ecosystem advantage nopes the moment x86 shows up to the party. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44465319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44465319 > Intel N150 is the first consumer Atom CPU (in 15 years!) to include TXT/DRTM for measured system launch with owner-managed keys. At every system boot, this can confirm that immutable components (anything from BIOS+config to the kernel to immutable partitions) have the expected binary hash/tree.
    - baq 1y ago
      I completely agree, got an N100 minipc server at home myself which replaced an rpi 4. Fantastic value. My point is Intel's accountants have a history of seeing 'fantastic value' as 'margins too low', which reduces the margin of error in engineering to ~0.
      - transpute 1y ago
        N100/N150 (unintentionally?) fueled a Cambrian explosion in mini PCs. It needs a few more years of OEM experimentation with form factors and ISV software stacks to identify new vertical markets, before trying to harvest high margin segments. It's too early and too successful to abandon the category now. If they must have a $300 price point, offer one with many E-cores and zero P-cores. I wonder how long Twin Lake N150 will be sold, if there is no successor, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241636/intel-processor-n150-6m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241636/...
hnuser123456 1y ago
If it's got 2 P-cores, it would be more like an updated core 3 100u, it'll likely have 20 rather than 9 pcie lanes, dual channel ram, thunderbolt, etc, and be priced like the nuc 15 pro, around $400.
- adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
  that would be a shame. the 150-250 price range is so much better
  - hnuser123456 1y ago
    I found an MSI on sale for 300 with one, but yeah the price gap is way too big.