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“I believe a lot of the negativity towards CSS stems from not really knowing how to use it. Many developers kind of just skip learning the CSS fundamentals in f

“I believe a lot of the negativity towards CSS stems from not really knowing how to use it. Many developers kind of just skip learning the CSS fundamentals in favor of the more interesting Java- and TypeScript, and then go on to complain about a styling language they don’t understand.” from the article is talking about people like you, who refuse to learn something properly but have the arrogance to think they know better.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
You can apply that line of argument towards anything though, it's not particularly insightful.
- archerx 1y ago
  Yes refusing to learn to program, draw, drive or whatever properly and then complaining about it is stupid and provides more insight on the person than the activity. There’s nothing more arrogant than doing something wrong/badly and then blaming the tool for the outcome and not yourself.
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    Perhaps the only thing more arrogant is to assume someone who criticizes something simply doesn't understand it.
wmil 1y ago
That's incredibly arrogant phrasing by both you and the author. Here's a better explanation of the hostility towards CSS. Nested flexbox had bugs in IE11, which wasn't end of lifed until 2022. The nested CSS in the article came out in December 2023. CSS first came out in 1996. The current state is much improved, but don't pretend there wasn't a solid 20+ years of sucking before that.
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  >Nested flexbox had bugs in IE11, which wasn't end of lifed until 2022. how is I hate CSS because IE was poorly maintained a serious argument?
  - icedchai 1y ago
    For a long time, from the late 90's until roughly 2012, IE was the most popular browser. You had no choice but to work with it. If it didn't "work on IE", it didn't work.
    - archerx 1y ago
      Yea and people over exaggerated about it just like people over exaggerate things today like how hard CSS. The technology progress but people’s refusal to learn and desire to whine on the internet has stayed the same.
      - icedchai 1y ago
        This is true, but the dominance of IE and its quirks, especially during the early 2000's, should not be underestimated. The browser situation, especially on Linux, was absolutely abysmal then.
    - bryanrasmussen 1y ago
      I don't think flexbox really started being used until 2013 at the earliest, the comment I replied to was complaining about 2022 and a flexbox bug in IE. This 2012 thing doesn't seem to relate at all to the subject. on edit: I know it was in WD in 2009 but I'm pretty sure it was around 2013 that people started playing with it. I think it started being popular in 2014-2015.
      - icedchai 1y ago
        My comment was more about the prevalence of IE in general, not flexbox specific. There were tons of IE quirks that had to be dealt with.
m-schuetz 1y ago
I don't have the time to spend weeks for every little tool to study its details and edge cases, I simply want to use them and get stuff done. If a tool is actively counterintuitive and hostile to its user, then it is flawed and it is no wonder users will seek out alternatives.
- archerx 1y ago
  >I refuse to learn the tool properly and blame the tool instead of my laziness Ok
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - m-schuetz 1y ago
    Yeah, of course I'm lazy, why would I want to do unnecessary extra work? If a tool has bad UX that demands more effort than it should, I will find a different one. I have a limited amount of time to spare. If there is no other tool, I'll do a "good-enough" job and move on to more important tasks. Luckily, alternatives usually exist. Krita instead of Gimp, Cuda&OpenGL instead of Vulkan, C++ instead of Rust, etc.
    - floydnoel 1y ago
      there's two types of workmanship, where one camp focuses on becoming more and more proficient with progressively more advanced tools and the other focuses on blasting through the piecework as quickly as possible. obviously the latter is much more common, but on a site such as this there still exist faint traces of the former.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago

You can apply that line of argument towards anything though, it's not particularly insightful.

archerx 1y ago
Yes refusing to learn to program, draw, drive or whatever properly and then complaining about it is stupid and provides more insight on the person than the activity. There’s nothing more arrogant than doing something wrong/badly and then blaming the tool for the outcome and not yourself.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  Perhaps the only thing more arrogant is to assume someone who criticizes something simply doesn't understand it.

wmil 1y ago

That's incredibly arrogant phrasing by both you and the author. Here's a better explanation of the hostility towards CSS. Nested flexbox had bugs in IE11, which wasn't end of lifed until 2022. The nested CSS in the article came out in December 2023. CSS first came out in 1996. The current state is much improved, but don't pretend there wasn't a solid 20+ years of sucking before that.

bryanrasmussen 1y ago
>Nested flexbox had bugs in IE11, which wasn't end of lifed until 2022. how is I hate CSS because IE was poorly maintained a serious argument?
- icedchai 1y ago
  For a long time, from the late 90's until roughly 2012, IE was the most popular browser. You had no choice but to work with it. If it didn't "work on IE", it didn't work.
  - archerx 1y ago
    Yea and people over exaggerated about it just like people over exaggerate things today like how hard CSS. The technology progress but people’s refusal to learn and desire to whine on the internet has stayed the same.
    - icedchai 1y ago
      This is true, but the dominance of IE and its quirks, especially during the early 2000's, should not be underestimated. The browser situation, especially on Linux, was absolutely abysmal then.
  - bryanrasmussen 1y ago
    I don't think flexbox really started being used until 2013 at the earliest, the comment I replied to was complaining about 2022 and a flexbox bug in IE. This 2012 thing doesn't seem to relate at all to the subject. on edit: I know it was in WD in 2009 but I'm pretty sure it was around 2013 that people started playing with it. I think it started being popular in 2014-2015.
    - icedchai 1y ago
      My comment was more about the prevalence of IE in general, not flexbox specific. There were tons of IE quirks that had to be dealt with.

m-schuetz 1y ago

I don't have the time to spend weeks for every little tool to study its details and edge cases, I simply want to use them and get stuff done. If a tool is actively counterintuitive and hostile to its user, then it is flawed and it is no wonder users will seek out alternatives.

archerx 1y ago
>I refuse to learn the tool properly and blame the tool instead of my laziness Ok
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- m-schuetz 1y ago
  Yeah, of course I'm lazy, why would I want to do unnecessary extra work? If a tool has bad UX that demands more effort than it should, I will find a different one. I have a limited amount of time to spare. If there is no other tool, I'll do a "good-enough" job and move on to more important tasks. Luckily, alternatives usually exist. Krita instead of Gimp, Cuda&OpenGL instead of Vulkan, C++ instead of Rust, etc.
  - floydnoel 1y ago
    there's two types of workmanship, where one camp focuses on becoming more and more proficient with progressively more advanced tools and the other focuses on blasting through the piecework as quickly as possible. obviously the latter is much more common, but on a site such as this there still exist faint traces of the former.