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I’m curious what about the language is getting more complex. Any examples? The ecosystem definitely seems to be getting much more complex, but the language itse

by WD-42 1y ago

I’m curious what about the language is getting more complex. Any examples? The ecosystem definitely seems to be getting much more complex, but the language itself hasn’t evolved dramatically since type hints that I can remember.

pansa2 1y ago
Type hints aren’t a single addition - with every release they get more complex. It wouldn’t surprise me if the language included 20+ typing-related PEPs by now. The other obvious example of complexity is pattern matching. The feature is very complex, especially how it breaks established rules of the language. It also required fundamental changes to the interpreter to accommodate it: a rewrite of the parser from simple LL(1) to PEG.
- maleldil 1y ago
  > It also required fundamental changes to the interpreter to accommodate it: a rewrite of the parser from simple LL(1) to PEG. The PEP 617[1] (the PEG change) doesn't mention pattern matching at all. [1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0617 https://peps.python.org/pep-0617
- pauleveritt 1y ago
  Guido said for many years (decades) that he wanted to get back to the parser.
jibal 1y ago
I've been as programmer for 60 years. I know perl well and it was my go-to scripting language for years although I hated the sigils various other design choices. Only within this year did I set aside the time to learn Python. It didn't take long ... the language is not complex. Of course the libraries and frameworks and deployment tools etc. are extensive and dense and complex because the world has become so complex, extraordinarily so compared to the world when I started programming.
- pansa2 1y ago
  > the language is not complex It's easy to get started with, but it's certainly not simple. Even small expressions like `a + b` or `a.b` in Python have very complex semantics.
  - jibal 1y ago
    Gee, programming is hard. The language is not complex. (And there is a context here, with claims that the language has become complex ... your examples are obviously not relevant to that context.)

by WD-42 1y ago

pansa2 1y ago

Type hints aren’t a single addition - with every release they get more complex. It wouldn’t surprise me if the language included 20+ typing-related PEPs by now. The other obvious example of complexity is pattern matching. The feature is very complex, especially how it breaks established rules of the language. It also required fundamental changes to the interpreter to accommodate it: a rewrite of the parser from simple LL(1) to PEG.

maleldil 1y ago
> It also required fundamental changes to the interpreter to accommodate it: a rewrite of the parser from simple LL(1) to PEG. The PEP 617[1] (the PEG change) doesn't mention pattern matching at all. [1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0617 https://peps.python.org/pep-0617
pauleveritt 1y ago
Guido said for many years (decades) that he wanted to get back to the parser.

jibal 1y ago

I've been as programmer for 60 years. I know perl well and it was my go-to scripting language for years although I hated the sigils various other design choices. Only within this year did I set aside the time to learn Python. It didn't take long ... the language is not complex. Of course the libraries and frameworks and deployment tools etc. are extensive and dense and complex because the world has become so complex, extraordinarily so compared to the world when I started programming.

pansa2 1y ago
> the language is not complex It's easy to get started with, but it's certainly not simple. Even small expressions like `a + b` or `a.b` in Python have very complex semantics.
- jibal 1y ago
  Gee, programming is hard. The language is not complex. (And there is a context here, with claims that the language has become complex ... your examples are obviously not relevant to that context.)