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Interesting to think about how Apple get to make product decisions based on Gatekeeper OCSP analytics now that every app launch phones home. They must know exac

by Lammy 1y ago

Interesting to think about how Apple get to make product decisions based on Gatekeeper OCSP analytics now that every app launch phones home. They must know exactly how popular VSCode is. Facebook got excoriated for doing that with Onavo but I guess it's Good Actually when it's done in the name of protecting my computer from myself lol

wahnfrieden 1y ago
This won't make a dent. It still doesn't support any agentic operation. The real news is when Codex CLI / Claude Code get integrated, or Apple introduces a competitor offering to them. Until then this is a toy and should not be used for any serious work while these far better tools exist.
- alwillis 1y ago
  I just installed it—definitely not a toy. Compared to stock Claude Code, this version of Claude knows a lot more about SwiftUI and related technologies. The following is output from Claude in Xcode on an empty project. Claude Code gives a generic response when it looked at the same project: What I Can Help You With • SwiftUI Development: Layout, state management, animations, etc. • iOS/macOS App Architecture: MVVM, data flow, navigation • Apple Frameworks: Core Data, CloudKit, MapKit, etc. • Testing: Both traditional XCTest and the new Swift Testing framework • Performance & Best Practices: Swift concurrency, memory management Example of What We Could Do Right Now Looking at your current ContentView.swift􀰓, I could help you: • Transform this basic "Hello World" into a recovery tracking interface • Add navigation, data models, or user interface components • Implement proper architecture patterns for your Recovery Tracker app
  - ako 1y ago
    Isn’t that easy to add with some rules and guidelines documents? I usually ask Claude code to research modern best practices for SwiftUI apps and to summarize the learnings in a rules file that will be part of the SwiftUI project.
    - theshrike79 1y ago
      Yes and no. Proper Agentic coding tools like Claude Code are a bit more than just a bunch of markdown rulesets. For example: it uses Haiku as a model to run tools and most likely has automatic translations for when the model signals it wants to search or find something -> either use the built-in search or run find/fd/grep/rg All that _can_ be done by prompting, but - as always with LLMS - prompts are more like suggestions.
  - manmal 1y ago
    If a bunch of markdown files forced into the context is “knowing”, then yes. They are usually located at /Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/PlugIns/IDEIntelligenceChat.framework/Versions/A/Resources/AdditionalDocumentation You are free to point Claude Code to that folder, or make a slash command that loads their contents. Or, start CC with -p where the prompt is the content of all those files. Claude Code integration in Xcode would be very cool indeed, but I might still stick with VSCode for pure coding.
    - brailsafe 1y ago
      > Claude Code integration in Xcode would be very cool indeed, but I might still stick with VSCode for pure coding. I'm sticking with VSCode too, but it's a bit silly to suggest that anyone is using XCode because it's their preferred IDE. It's just the one that's necessary for any non-trivial Apple platform development. Adding a code generator isn't a marketing ploy to get people to switch editors, it's just a small concession to the many hapless souls stuck dealing with Apple on the professional side, or masochistically building mac SwiftUI apps just to remind themselves what pain feels like.
      - manmal 1y ago
        I mean you can stay in VSCode for most activities if you hate Xcode that much (I can relate btw). Plugins like Sweetpad make this possible. My approach now is to develop all logic in small Swift packages and run swift test in VSCode (or Claude Code), so I only absolutely need Xcode for debugging and building releases. Every once in a while I try SwiftUI previews, but those are usually broken anyways.
        brailsafe 1y ago
        Ya I was considering a similar workflow last time I was steeped in SwiftUI. I don't dislike it that much actually, maybe just how slow the compile and error alerting is/was last time. I mainly found mac SwiftUI performance to be lacking, along with the transparency and documentation of the api. Swift itself is fine, and I give a xcode a lot of credit for somehow functioning as well as it does with so much accumulated functionality/complexity/bloat. SwiftUI previews were... manageable but not great.
  - ghurtado 1y ago
    I'm as crazy about AI as the next dev, but that has to be the weakest example of AI capability that I have ever seen.
    - wahnfrieden 1y ago
      People are just excited to see Apple finally integrate something useful. But it’s not 1/100th as useful as agentic tools (CC, Codex) which have access to the exact same markdown files as the Apple one. There’s nothing else special about Apple’s offering, and it has no agentic capability. It is a waste of time to use it.
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    If it is severely less capable - and not even any cheaper to use - then it’s a toy! A penny farthing can get you somewhere just as a car can but only one is perhaps of professional utility even if the other used to be at one point too
doctorpangloss 1y ago
Apple doesn't need telemetry to send emails about their favorite coding AI to the 2 Xcode users
- kennywinker 1y ago
  Off by about 33,999,998 users, but still a decent dunk. https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-over-34-million-registered-developers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-ove...
  - LinuxAmbulance 1y ago
    34 million developers? That number doesn't even pass a basic sniff test. Are there 34 million people that have Xcode installed? That I can believe.
    - _puk 1y ago
      If my experience is anything to go by - a good proportion of this will be people accidentally double clicking a .md (or other random text suffix), and cursing whilst they wait for XCode to slowly load enough that they can quit it and open the file in a proper lightweight editor..
      - tomashubelbauer 1y ago
        I feel like the #1 reason to install Xcode is to get Git working on macOS. Yours is probably #2. I wouldn't bet money on iOS/macOS development sitting at #3.
        Lammy 1y ago
        Command Line Tools for Xcode is a separate smaller package than the full graphical Xcode tho: `xcode-select --install`
      - slipperydippery 1y ago

by Lammy 1y ago

wahnfrieden 1y ago

This won't make a dent. It still doesn't support any agentic operation. The real news is when Codex CLI / Claude Code get integrated, or Apple introduces a competitor offering to them. Until then this is a toy and should not be used for any serious work while these far better tools exist.

alwillis 1y ago
I just installed it—definitely not a toy. Compared to stock Claude Code, this version of Claude knows a lot more about SwiftUI and related technologies. The following is output from Claude in Xcode on an empty project. Claude Code gives a generic response when it looked at the same project: What I Can Help You With • SwiftUI Development: Layout, state management, animations, etc. • iOS/macOS App Architecture: MVVM, data flow, navigation • Apple Frameworks: Core Data, CloudKit, MapKit, etc. • Testing: Both traditional XCTest and the new Swift Testing framework • Performance & Best Practices: Swift concurrency, memory management Example of What We Could Do Right Now Looking at your current ContentView.swift􀰓, I could help you: • Transform this basic "Hello World" into a recovery tracking interface • Add navigation, data models, or user interface components • Implement proper architecture patterns for your Recovery Tracker app
- ako 1y ago
  Isn’t that easy to add with some rules and guidelines documents? I usually ask Claude code to research modern best practices for SwiftUI apps and to summarize the learnings in a rules file that will be part of the SwiftUI project.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    Yes and no. Proper Agentic coding tools like Claude Code are a bit more than just a bunch of markdown rulesets. For example: it uses Haiku as a model to run tools and most likely has automatic translations for when the model signals it wants to search or find something -> either use the built-in search or run find/fd/grep/rg All that _can_ be done by prompting, but - as always with LLMS - prompts are more like suggestions.
- manmal 1y ago
  If a bunch of markdown files forced into the context is “knowing”, then yes. They are usually located at /Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/PlugIns/IDEIntelligenceChat.framework/Versions/A/Resources/AdditionalDocumentation You are free to point Claude Code to that folder, or make a slash command that loads their contents. Or, start CC with -p where the prompt is the content of all those files. Claude Code integration in Xcode would be very cool indeed, but I might still stick with VSCode for pure coding.
  - brailsafe 1y ago
    > Claude Code integration in Xcode would be very cool indeed, but I might still stick with VSCode for pure coding. I'm sticking with VSCode too, but it's a bit silly to suggest that anyone is using XCode because it's their preferred IDE. It's just the one that's necessary for any non-trivial Apple platform development. Adding a code generator isn't a marketing ploy to get people to switch editors, it's just a small concession to the many hapless souls stuck dealing with Apple on the professional side, or masochistically building mac SwiftUI apps just to remind themselves what pain feels like.
    - manmal 1y ago
      I mean you can stay in VSCode for most activities if you hate Xcode that much (I can relate btw). Plugins like Sweetpad make this possible. My approach now is to develop all logic in small Swift packages and run swift test in VSCode (or Claude Code), so I only absolutely need Xcode for debugging and building releases. Every once in a while I try SwiftUI previews, but those are usually broken anyways.
      - brailsafe 1y ago
        Ya I was considering a similar workflow last time I was steeped in SwiftUI. I don't dislike it that much actually, maybe just how slow the compile and error alerting is/was last time. I mainly found mac SwiftUI performance to be lacking, along with the transparency and documentation of the api. Swift itself is fine, and I give a xcode a lot of credit for somehow functioning as well as it does with so much accumulated functionality/complexity/bloat. SwiftUI previews were... manageable but not great.
- ghurtado 1y ago
  I'm as crazy about AI as the next dev, but that has to be the weakest example of AI capability that I have ever seen.
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    People are just excited to see Apple finally integrate something useful. But it’s not 1/100th as useful as agentic tools (CC, Codex) which have access to the exact same markdown files as the Apple one. There’s nothing else special about Apple’s offering, and it has no agentic capability. It is a waste of time to use it.
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  If it is severely less capable - and not even any cheaper to use - then it’s a toy! A penny farthing can get you somewhere just as a car can but only one is perhaps of professional utility even if the other used to be at one point too

doctorpangloss 1y ago

Apple doesn't need telemetry to send emails about their favorite coding AI to the 2 Xcode users

kennywinker 1y ago
Off by about 33,999,998 users, but still a decent dunk. https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-over-34-million-registered-developers https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/06/apple-now-has-ove...
- LinuxAmbulance 1y ago
  34 million developers? That number doesn't even pass a basic sniff test. Are there 34 million people that have Xcode installed? That I can believe.
  - _puk 1y ago
    If my experience is anything to go by - a good proportion of this will be people accidentally double clicking a .md (or other random text suffix), and cursing whilst they wait for XCode to slowly load enough that they can quit it and open the file in a proper lightweight editor..
    - tomashubelbauer 1y ago
      I feel like the #1 reason to install Xcode is to get Git working on macOS. Yours is probably #2. I wouldn't bet money on iOS/macOS development sitting at #3.
      - Lammy 1y ago
        Command Line Tools for Xcode is a separate smaller package than the full graphical Xcode tho: `xcode-select --install`
    - slipperydippery 1y ago