4 ms·

I am with you all the way on this. The great businesses and fortunes of the last 200 years of industry did not come from engineering or technical expertise, but

I am with you all the way on this. The great businesses and fortunes of the last 200 years of industry did not come from engineering or technical expertise, but rather from those few, adept individuals who were able to navigate the mysterious world of relationships. If you do not make a dozen friends in every crowded room and instinctively form lucrative relationships on a daily basis, then knowing someone who does is the most valuable asset to your professional goals.

jkbyc 14y ago
That's a simplistic view. I did almost exactly what you suggested and failed because although my co-founder was good at building lucrative relationships and even had some technical knowledge, he thought that he always knew best what should be done, wasn't really open for discussion, and generally was full of BS thinking he's likely the next Steve Jobs. Unfortunately I recognized this way too late. Also, he never really proved he can in fact build something really valuable (but there were some smaller successes so I was hopeful).
- padobson 14y ago
  Sounds like he wasn't very good at managing the relationship with you. Steve Jobs turned on the charm when he needed it - he was so good at reading people that he knew when he could treat them like crap and when he had to really suckup. Sounds like you're partner didn't have anything like that. That's too bad because there's no relationship more important than the one with your co-founder.
codeonfire 14y ago
You give the non-technical person's point of view and there is no way it can be correct. All successful tech firms are successful because of their advanced technology created by employees or acquired. In no situation did Apple engineers hang out in a crowded room until someone told them where they can pick iPhones off of a tree. Someone had to actually design and make those, and that is what made the business the largest. It's the airplane effect. Airplanes are so amazing that its difficult to image that a group of people designed and crated it.
- padobson 14y ago
  Apple is the worst example that you could use. Steve Jobs never wrote single line of code! He didn't solder a single chip into a single iPhone. Nor was he the lead product designer, the lead ad man, or an expert in any field EXCEPT dealing with people. He brought all the people together to form the iPhone teame at Apple, and that was far more instrumental to designing, manufacturing, shipping, and selling iPhones than any technical expertise.
  - codeonfire 14y ago
    My point stands that the iPhone exists because of the scientists and engineers who created the technolgoies. Just because Jobs was the figurehead does not mean he should be attributed with the success of apple technology, which probably wasn't even developed specifically for apple.
lsc 14y ago
>The great businesses and fortunes of the last 200 years of industry did not come from engineering or technical expertise, but rather from those few, adept individuals who were able to navigate the mysterious world of relationships. I am not sure how you can say that, considering the dramatic technical advances over the same period. I mean, there is no way to experimentally show what is cause and what is effect, but to me, the idea that we had this incredible technical progress because a few guys figured out how to better socialize, rather than the other way around (what social and organizational progress we had was enabled and really, made almost inevitable by the incredible technology we developed.) We all have opinions, I guess. I disagree with yours. >If you do not make a dozen friends in every crowded room and instinctively form lucrative relationships on a daily basis, then knowing someone who does is the most valuable asset to your professional goals. Social skills are extremely context-dependent. The same attributes and actions that mean you are well liked at the sales meeting will get you the cold shoulder at a sufficiently technical conference. I mean, I'm not saying a 'human interactions' specialist isn't useful... I'm just saying, it's not as generalizable as you think. Really, a 'business guy' isn't necessarily a social specialist, either. I mean, a lot of what makes a professional a professional is the ability to grab as much of the surplus value in a deal as possible. Being a nice person with a sense of fairness can hold you back at that, sometimes. A 'business guy' could also specialize in finding inefficiencies in the market. It's interesting; I primarily sell virtual servers to people that are smarter than I am, people that generally identify as nerds. I seem to be okay at this. But, I go and try to sell bandwidth to co-lo customers? even at dramatically below market prices, I find I am not so good. See, in that case, you are usually selling to some middle manager. different people; The really interesting thing isn't so much that I am bad at it; it's easy enough to hire a sales guy on commission, and like I said, my bandwidth prices are way below market, so there is plenty of room for commission. The really interesting thing is that even when I do that, and the sales guy closes the deal and I get the customer? they aren't happy with me. I mean, your nerds? they like transparency. They like to see how the sausage is made; I mean, yeah, I have some serious problems; Nerds want to hear about those, and if the answer to "why are you doing it that way?" is "because I made a bad decision 2 years ago and the contract isn't up" or "because I haven't fixed it yet, I'm sorry. This thing, that thing and the other thing are ahead in the priority queue." - that's usually okay. Your business people? they want the godaddy response. As little information as possible. short and to the point. They don't want to hear there is a bug in your router software. They don't want you to say "I might be wrong" when you give them something. It's weird... almost all of my 'organic' customers seem to be pretty happy with me. (Not all of them. I do have problems, I do screw things up, and, well, some people just have high expectations. But the vast majority seem to be pretty happy.) But the customers I've gotten through sales people, through professionals? It's like they are expecting a very different personality on the other side of the phone line. The social skills that serve me well with the first group actively hurt me with the second.

jkbyc 14y ago

That's a simplistic view. I did almost exactly what you suggested and failed because although my co-founder was good at building lucrative relationships and even had some technical knowledge, he thought that he always knew best what should be done, wasn't really open for discussion, and generally was full of BS thinking he's likely the next Steve Jobs. Unfortunately I recognized this way too late. Also, he never really proved he can in fact build something really valuable (but there were some smaller successes so I was hopeful).

padobson 14y ago
Sounds like he wasn't very good at managing the relationship with you. Steve Jobs turned on the charm when he needed it - he was so good at reading people that he knew when he could treat them like crap and when he had to really suckup. Sounds like you're partner didn't have anything like that. That's too bad because there's no relationship more important than the one with your co-founder.

codeonfire 14y ago

You give the non-technical person's point of view and there is no way it can be correct. All successful tech firms are successful because of their advanced technology created by employees or acquired. In no situation did Apple engineers hang out in a crowded room until someone told them where they can pick iPhones off of a tree. Someone had to actually design and make those, and that is what made the business the largest. It's the airplane effect. Airplanes are so amazing that its difficult to image that a group of people designed and crated it.

padobson 14y ago
Apple is the worst example that you could use. Steve Jobs never wrote single line of code! He didn't solder a single chip into a single iPhone. Nor was he the lead product designer, the lead ad man, or an expert in any field EXCEPT dealing with people. He brought all the people together to form the iPhone teame at Apple, and that was far more instrumental to designing, manufacturing, shipping, and selling iPhones than any technical expertise.
- codeonfire 14y ago
  My point stands that the iPhone exists because of the scientists and engineers who created the technolgoies. Just because Jobs was the figurehead does not mean he should be attributed with the success of apple technology, which probably wasn't even developed specifically for apple.

lsc 14y ago

>The great businesses and fortunes of the last 200 years of industry did not come from engineering or technical expertise, but rather from those few, adept individuals who were able to navigate the mysterious world of relationships. I am not sure how you can say that, considering the dramatic technical advances over the same period. I mean, there is no way to experimentally show what is cause and what is effect, but to me, the idea that we had this incredible technical progress because a few guys figured out how to better socialize, rather than the other way around (what social and organizational progress we had was enabled and really, made almost inevitable by the incredible technology we developed.) We all have opinions, I guess. I disagree with yours. >If you do not make a dozen friends in every crowded room and instinctively form lucrative relationships on a daily basis, then knowing someone who does is the most valuable asset to your professional goals. Social skills are extremely context-dependent. The same attributes and actions that mean you are well liked at the sales meeting will get you the cold shoulder at a sufficiently technical conference. I mean, I'm not saying a 'human interactions' specialist isn't useful... I'm just saying, it's not as generalizable as you think. Really, a 'business guy' isn't necessarily a social specialist, either. I mean, a lot of what makes a professional a professional is the ability to grab as much of the surplus value in a deal as possible. Being a nice person with a sense of fairness can hold you back at that, sometimes. A 'business guy' could also specialize in finding inefficiencies in the market. It's interesting; I primarily sell virtual servers to people that are smarter than I am, people that generally identify as nerds. I seem to be okay at this. But, I go and try to sell bandwidth to co-lo customers? even at dramatically below market prices, I find I am not so good. See, in that case, you are usually selling to some middle manager. different people; The really interesting thing isn't so much that I am bad at it; it's easy enough to hire a sales guy on commission, and like I said, my bandwidth prices are way below market, so there is plenty of room for commission. The really interesting thing is that even when I do that, and the sales guy closes the deal and I get the customer? they aren't happy with me. I mean, your nerds? they like transparency. They like to see how the sausage is made; I mean, yeah, I have some serious problems; Nerds want to hear about those, and if the answer to "why are you doing it that way?" is "because I made a bad decision 2 years ago and the contract isn't up" or "because I haven't fixed it yet, I'm sorry. This thing, that thing and the other thing are ahead in the priority queue." - that's usually okay. Your business people? they want the godaddy response. As little information as possible. short and to the point. They don't want to hear there is a bug in your router software. They don't want you to say "I might be wrong" when you give them something. It's weird... almost all of my 'organic' customers seem to be pretty happy with me. (Not all of them. I do have problems, I do screw things up, and, well, some people just have high expectations. But the vast majority seem to be pretty happy.) But the customers I've gotten through sales people, through professionals? It's like they are expecting a very different personality on the other side of the phone line. The social skills that serve me well with the first group actively hurt me with the second.