6 ms·
The Tragic End of Natalia Nagovitsyna's Ordeal on Pobeda Peak
- weezy 1y agoEesh, the person who went up to give her supplies died on the way down too.
- bxsioshc 1y agoAlso her husband died a few year ago. These people want to do things that they know are extremely dangerous, and some times die. I don't empathize. Compare to those people who die by no fault of their own. Drunk driver, war, etc. Am I callous to believe that the two are not equally deserving of our empathy?
- afthonos 1y agoI think making a point broadcasting that one doesn’t care if other people who weren’t harming anyone die is callous, yes. Doubly so when one does it on a news story about people dying.
- jrm4 1y agoHmm. I don't know. I am glad they're not harming anyone else, but also -- like, I have kids. And if they were to get into this sort of thing, I'd at the least be like "Well, that's STUPID. Why put yourselves in harm's way deliberately like this. Stressing me and mom out. Do something that helps someone else instead."
- afthonos 1y agoThat’s fair, but there’s a way to say that without bringing “deserving” into it. As you did. For my part, there’s a big part of me that still is moved by Tennyson: “As tho’ to breathe were life!”
- dmix 1y agoMy uncle promised his kid $10k if he did not buy a motorcycle he was planning to buy
- jemmyw 1y agoThe thing is, they can and do harm others. Not just family and friends when they perish, but rescue workers who risk their own lives to save people who get into trouble. The article talks of 2 people who delivered her supplies, one died, the other has gone to Germany for frostbite treatment - as fellow climbers maybe they don't count in quite the same way, but rescue workers do die or get injured as well.
- inglor_cz 1y agoRescue workers do their job willingly. No one really forces them to (usual exceptions for North Korea et al. apply here). I know an old emergency doctor who once survived a helicopter crash. He still walks with a limp and still flies missions with a helo, even though he is pushing sixty. It is a specific sort of mentality on their part and frankly my experience with them is that they neither need nor appreciate any white-knighting for their safety. If they wanted a safe job, they could easily switch to pushing papers around, there is no shortage of such jobs in the modern world.
- amluto 1y agoAccording to the article, the person who died bringing her supplies was a member of her original expedition group, not an unrelated rescue worker.
- inglor_cz 1y agoTBH daily, about 150 000 humans die, and I don't have the capacity to mourn them all. That said, as you say, broadcasting that one does not care without even being asked is already an attitude and I wouldn't like to be in any sort of relationship with a person which spontaneously emits such messages.
- bxsioshc 1y ago[dead]
- bxsioshc 1y ago[dead]
- CamperBob2 1y agoDrunk driver, war, etc. Am I callous to believe that the two are not equally deserving of our empathy? I've always thought that a good comparison was drug addiction. Ultimately, what's the difference between someone who engages in high-risk extreme sports and someone who just sits at home doing meth in the basement? They are both doing dangerous, unnecessary things to manipulate their brain chemistry, without creating or learning anything useful or affecting anything in the larger world around them. Why is one considered heroic and adventurous, and the other criminal or at best pathetic? I'm not saying that pleasure-seeking for its own sake is inherently bad or wrong, but how would you compare and contrast the behavior of a drug addict and a high-risk climber, if you were explaining it to an alien anthropologist?
- foldingmoney 1y ago>I'm not saying that pleasure-seeking for its own sake is inherently bad or wrong, but how would you compare and contrast the behavior of a drug addict and a high-risk climber, if you were explaining it to an alien anthropologist? the argument is probably that today's extreme sports risk takers were last epoch's explorers who helped humanity conquer the planet.
- CamperBob2 1y agoI'd be willing to buy that if she had died while diving in an unexplored cave system, for instance, working to bring us knowledge and insights about nature that we didn't already have. But there was nothing left to discover on that mountain peak, except how much frostbite sucks.
- afthonos 1y agoI find the analogy quite apt. I have known drug addicts who I thought were recovered, but who could not fathom simply going to work and then going home to their families every night. They thought that was an incredibly boring life. Predictably, they relapsed. They could’ve caused significantly less stress to their families and loved ones by having more socially acceptable thrillseeking methods.
- fatbird 1y ago
- cgh 1y ago[flagged]
- like_any_other 1y agoThat is a path towards a more boring humanity.
- antod 1y agoDid you mean sympathy rather than empathy?
- watwut 1y agoThere is not caring about an unknown person which is default stance. And then there is going out of your way to make everyone know other people do not deserve empathy or whatever and how worthless they are to you. The two are not the same. Why do you want us all to compare them to other people who died? You are not callous. You are angry and emotional over others having interest in the story.
- fn-mote 1y agoWithout death, there is no life. Climbers know they risk death in pursuit of their accomplishments. I am positive it is one of the ways they challenge themselves. These aren’t kids you are talking about. As the article says, this climber’s husband died while she was climbing with him in 2021. She absolutely knew the risks. I do not believe she would have wanted sympathy. “Normal” people can’t relate, and have “normal” responses. I’ll imagine my own eulogy for her, but this article isn’t it.
- Mistletoe 1y agoIs it known how she broke her leg?
- Mars008 1y agoIs that important? One misstep. She broke her leg half a year before.
- chasing0entropy 1y agoThe article implies she is stranded due to the broken leg - I think HOW the leg was broken would be relevant to the post. Are you intimating that she was camped halfway down a summit for another reason?
- Mars008 1y agoNo, I'm saying she broke her leg again. Likely it wasn't fully healed from previous brake. That's all. Nevertheless she decided to go, which is challenging even for best and well prepared climbers. In other words it's not a big surprise. BTW, she is confirmed dead.
- ivan_gammel 1y agoThere’s unverified information that her guide slipped and dragged her down, at which moment she broke her leg. However I won’t trust it, because most news outlets telling this also mix up other facts and don’t mention the source. It just happens there, on one of the most dangerous mountains in the world. There were other deaths this year, the only difference is that she didn’t die within hours and was stuck there for a while.
- lifestyleguru 1y ago> part of her quest to complete the Snow Leopard challenge by climbing all five 7,000m peaks in the former USSR. I just don't understand these challenges but at least it's a self resolving problem.
- hainkind 1y agoIt's not. There are people with an adventure-dimension in their personality and that's a good thing. Otherwise we wouldn't be typing here and still be sitting in a cave somewhere. She died while doing what she loved/ was obsessed with and there are certainly worse deaths.
- Mars008 1y ago> There are people with an adventure-dimension in their personality and that's a good thing The funny thing is this behavior was observed in animals (rats, as they are commonly used in experiments) in labs. So, it's not human specific.
- stavros 1y agoWow, I didn't realize helicopters can't go that high. I was wondering why it wasn't a simple helicopter extraction job, there you go.
- n1b0m 1y agoYes, helicopters can't fly at extremely high altitudes because their rotor blades need dense air to generate lift, and the air becomes too thin at high altitudes. This decreased air density requires the rotors to spin faster and the engines to work harder, ultimately limiting the aircraft's ability to maintain sufficient lift and power
- Mars008 1y ago> Yes, helicopters can't fly at extremely high altitudes because their rotor blades need dense air to generate lift, On Mars atmosphere is about 1%, or close. Still helicopter did fly. Correctly saying 'helicopters designed for dense atmosphere cannot fly in thin'. It is possible to build a drone specifically for these cases. Which will be able to lift 200kg off Everest. With long, wide blades. It's not that expensive and not a rocket science onymore.
- foxyv 1y agoIt's about 22 thousand feet above sea level. It has been done before, but only very rarely, and only during the rare occasion that the weather would permit it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Delsalle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didier_Delsalle
- ivan_gammel 1y agoThe unusual thing about this particular tragedy is the existence of the drone footage. If you search in the internet, there exists a footage of a flyover around Everest, but at those altitudes it is really uncommon. The technology is very new and almost NASA-grade: Ingenuity was a successful proof of concept, DJI is now showing modified commercial drones. It looks like those currently available drones won’t be able to get there any meaningful payload, so we can only watch people dying in high resolution, but not save them.