3 ms·

What I don't understand is why he wouldn't want Microsoft to be able to hire the best people for the job?

by awt 18y ago

potatolicious 18y ago
It's because of the "they're stealing our jerbs!" mentality that I see on a lot of other websites (who shall remain unnamed, the worst of which is named after punctuation)... "But there's tons of unemployed home-grown talent here!" I hear many people say. I argue otherwise. I have met these vaunted whiners who claim to possess all the skills they need to work at MS and beyond, and I can safely say that the vast majority wouldn't make the cut. Most are mindless script monkeys who couldn't hack their way out of a wet paper bag. I have yet to see a major US corporation favor immigrants in their hiring. In fact, almost every single American company I've had dealings with pay immigrant labor the same salary as their American counterparts. With all the extra legal hassle and costs this actually makes immigration more expensive for the employer. The talent shortage in the US tech sector is real, and instead of bemoaning the loss of jobs to immigrants, maybe American colleges should look at why they're producing so many people who don't make the cut. And perhaps these people who feel their jobs have been "stolen" should do some introspection and figure out just how hard these other guys are working compared to themselves.
- clintjhill 18y ago
  Most of the immigrant workers I work with also got their education in the U.S.
  - potatolicious 18y ago
    You make a good point. I didn't say conclusively that it's the colleges' fault, but it's worth looking into nonetheless. The way I see it it's not really a lack of education but rather the mentality that hard work isn't worth squat and people will get the world handed to them on a silver platter for just Being Awesome(tm). It's a mentality that many kids in my generation grew up with, what with gold stars and the constant news of Wall Street investors striking gold by making a few lucky bets. More American talent can be exposed if we can rid ourselves of this false sense of entitlement and convince people that if they want to get rich (or get a decently high paying job) they need to get their ass in gear and start working and learning.
- tokenadult 18y ago
  It's American K-12 education that isn't up to world standards. That means the American secondary school graduates entering tough college programs have more catching up to do than the (much more stringently selected) international undergraduates at American colleges. See the book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0805829091/ http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematic... (or its review by mathematician Richard Askey) http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/fall99/amed1.pdf http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/fall99/ame... for example of ways American primary education could do better.

What I don't understand is why he wouldn't want Microsoft to be able to hire the best people for the job?

by awt 18y ago

What I don't understand is why he wouldn't want Microsoft to be able to hire the best people for the job?

It's because of the "they're stealing our jerbs!" mentality that I see on a lot of other websites (who shall remain unnamed, the worst of which is named after punctuation)... "But there's tons of unemployed home-grown talent here!" I hear many people say. I argue otherwise. I have met these vaunted whiners who claim to possess all the skills they need to work at MS and beyond, and I can safely say that the vast majority wouldn't make the cut. Most are mindless script monkeys who couldn't hack their way out of a wet paper bag. I have yet to see a major US corporation favor immigrants in their hiring. In fact, almost every single American company I've had dealings with pay immigrant labor the same salary as their American counterparts. With all the extra legal hassle and costs this actually makes immigration more expensive for the employer. The talent shortage in the US tech sector is real, and instead of bemoaning the loss of jobs to immigrants, maybe American colleges should look at why they're producing so many people who don't make the cut. And perhaps these people who feel their jobs have been "stolen" should do some introspection and figure out just how hard these other guys are working compared to themselves.

clintjhill 18y ago
Most of the immigrant workers I work with also got their education in the U.S.
- potatolicious 18y ago
  You make a good point. I didn't say conclusively that it's the colleges' fault, but it's worth looking into nonetheless. The way I see it it's not really a lack of education but rather the mentality that hard work isn't worth squat and people will get the world handed to them on a silver platter for just Being Awesome(tm). It's a mentality that many kids in my generation grew up with, what with gold stars and the constant news of Wall Street investors striking gold by making a few lucky bets. More American talent can be exposed if we can rid ourselves of this false sense of entitlement and convince people that if they want to get rich (or get a decently high paying job) they need to get their ass in gear and start working and learning.
tokenadult 18y ago
It's American K-12 education that isn't up to world standards. That means the American secondary school graduates entering tough college programs have more catching up to do than the (much more stringently selected) international undergraduates at American colleges. See the book Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0805829091/ http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematic... (or its review by mathematician Richard Askey) http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/fall99/amed1.pdf http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/fall99/ame... for example of ways American primary education could do better.