4 ms·

Kind of sad, I had both PP and PPP When they were "new" the tech was old already and then the lack of drivers for the camera for example which I can't talk, I'

by ge96 1y ago

Kind of sad, I had both PP and PPP When they were "new" the tech was old already and then the lack of drivers for the camera for example which I can't talk, I'm not a driver developer. I thought it would make me get into developing drivers but I never did. Or writing Qt/C++ apps vs. cross platform/web that I was used to. For some reason I was obsessed with the thought of Dex/your phone being a computer if connected to a big monitor, it was cool using VS Code on the PPP but there would be problems. The external monitor I think was capped to 1920x1080 (if connected to a 1440P display a huge chunk was just static) I had my fun with it I was interested in the Pine 64 eInk tablet but that seemed to not be in stock at the time. I had the Remarkable 2 at one point, I want to get it again. edit: looks like the PineNote is in stock right now my consumer brain is getting tickled, might get a PineNote, what I liked about the RM2 is I didn't have to charge it for like a month was crazy, unfortunately PineNote doesn't seem to have that, and no tilt support on pen but ehhh. I don't know if RM forces you to have a subscription now, I didn't have it on mine when I got it in like 2022.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
Yeah for these kinds of things to work the hardware has to be at least somewhat competitive and the overall device reasonably usable. It doesn’t need to be a flagship or anything, just relatively recent, and the experience doesn’t have to be perfect, just actually suitable as a daily driver. That’s what gets people interested, inspires devs to contribute and fill app gaps. This kicks off a virtuous cycle where less technical family of those devs see the device and want to try it, which in turn creates more demand for apps pulling more dev interest and so on and so forth. It’s critical to be good enough to clear that initial hurdle, though. Without that, the device is relegated to the most curious of tinkerers which just isn’t sustainable. As far as dev experience goes, from my limited dabbling I think GTK+Adwaita might actually be overall nicer for mobile development than Qt, due to furnishment of a full set of widgets without having to pull in anything else, as well as bindings to way more languages. It’s considerably more comparable to UIKit and Android Framework at the very least.
- bruce511 1y ago
  >> That’s what gets people interested, inspires devs to contribute and fill app gaps. Alas, no, sorry. It's really not the number of apps that matters. Any phone OS could have less than 500 apps and be wildly successful. On the other hand you can have a million devs cranking out apps and the device would still be useless. Turns out the only apps that matters are the ones everyone actually use. Your banking app. Facebook. Whatsapp. Uber. Airbnb. Etc. All the product of big corporates. And my bank (to pick just 1) is simply not interested in developing their app for yet another platform. The effort in building it, supporting it etc simply makes no sense. Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, ESPN, and the next 40 "must haves" simply don't care. And independent devs simply cannot fill these holes. Without these the phone is simply useless as a daily driver for anything other than complete techno fanatics. Crumbs Microsoft couldn't convince this cohort to get on board. Some random Linux phone certainly won't. I don't say this with glee. They're nice toys. But Joe public doesn't reject them because of the hardware specs. He rejects them because they're functionally useless in the actual world.
  - ge96 1y ago
    That is true, you have to have two phones
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    I think this is wildly more individual-dependent than you may think. Speaking personally, while I do have a number of big commercial apps installed, the number that couldn’t be filled either with a web app or the Android version via a compatibility layer is tiny. The native apps I find most difficult to replace are those by small to midsize devs, which are exactly the ones most likely to be the primary contributors to a new platform early on. I don’t think this is particularly unusual, either. Plenty of people have absoutely no need for video streaming on their phone outside of maybe YouTube for example, which works well enough on the web. Microsoft’s not the best example here, because they had momentum with both devs and users but shot themselves in the foot repeatedly on both sides of the fence: warring internal factions reset Windows Mobile development multiple times consecutively and burned through dev goodwill and poor strategy on the consumer side killed things there. Mozilla’s foray into phones failed because they insisted on sticking to entry level devices which were both not interesting to most of the market and not powerful enough to handle a new unoptimized OS.
jolmg 1y ago
> The external monitor I think was capped to 1920x1080 (if connected to a 1440P display a huge chunk was just static) That happened to me with the PP, but I can reliably use a 1440P monitor with the PPP. Not sure if it's the phone, or the fact that I added a power cord to the phone while it was connected. I can't remember if I did that with the PP. EDIT: Scratch that. It's because I used the official dock with the PP, and for the PPP I used one I got on Amazon. The official dock is docked (:P) to 1080P.[1] I wonder how it happened that the de-facto standard here is for the protocol going over USB-C to be DisplayPort, but for the hardware connection to be HDMI, and so leading to docks needed to be spec'ed to the resolution you want instead of being passive. [1] https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pro-usb-c-docking-bar/ https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pro-usb-c-docking-bar/
- zorgmonkey 1y ago
  The answer is boring and annoying, they almost certainly want it to work with TVs and cheap monitors both of which commonly only have HDMI inputs. It has been my experience that you typically have to pay more for a USB-C dock with displayport outputs, even though they don't have the chip just cause of economies of scale.
- ge96 1y ago
  To be clear when I say 1440p I mean 3840x1440 which might be obvious I was using random USB-C to HDMI/usb that I bought on Amazon, I primarily used Mobian
  - jolmg 1y ago
    I meant 2560×1440. Checking online, I didn't realize there were so many different 1440p resolutions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1440p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1440p Random adapters on Amazon specify 4K though, so I would've thought they'd work for you too.
gunalx 1y ago
you might habe an old enough rm account to have free base subscription.
ge96 1y ago
I bought a Pine Note, probably a mistake with how poor I am But maybe motivates me I'm already concerned since it runs a full OS, its battery will be shit compared to an RM2

by ge96 1y ago

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

Yeah for these kinds of things to work the hardware has to be at least somewhat competitive and the overall device reasonably usable. It doesn’t need to be a flagship or anything, just relatively recent, and the experience doesn’t have to be perfect, just actually suitable as a daily driver. That’s what gets people interested, inspires devs to contribute and fill app gaps. This kicks off a virtuous cycle where less technical family of those devs see the device and want to try it, which in turn creates more demand for apps pulling more dev interest and so on and so forth. It’s critical to be good enough to clear that initial hurdle, though. Without that, the device is relegated to the most curious of tinkerers which just isn’t sustainable. As far as dev experience goes, from my limited dabbling I think GTK+Adwaita might actually be overall nicer for mobile development than Qt, due to furnishment of a full set of widgets without having to pull in anything else, as well as bindings to way more languages. It’s considerably more comparable to UIKit and Android Framework at the very least.

bruce511 1y ago
>> That’s what gets people interested, inspires devs to contribute and fill app gaps. Alas, no, sorry. It's really not the number of apps that matters. Any phone OS could have less than 500 apps and be wildly successful. On the other hand you can have a million devs cranking out apps and the device would still be useless. Turns out the only apps that matters are the ones everyone actually use. Your banking app. Facebook. Whatsapp. Uber. Airbnb. Etc. All the product of big corporates. And my bank (to pick just 1) is simply not interested in developing their app for yet another platform. The effort in building it, supporting it etc simply makes no sense. Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, ESPN, and the next 40 "must haves" simply don't care. And independent devs simply cannot fill these holes. Without these the phone is simply useless as a daily driver for anything other than complete techno fanatics. Crumbs Microsoft couldn't convince this cohort to get on board. Some random Linux phone certainly won't. I don't say this with glee. They're nice toys. But Joe public doesn't reject them because of the hardware specs. He rejects them because they're functionally useless in the actual world.
- ge96 1y ago
  That is true, you have to have two phones
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  I think this is wildly more individual-dependent than you may think. Speaking personally, while I do have a number of big commercial apps installed, the number that couldn’t be filled either with a web app or the Android version via a compatibility layer is tiny. The native apps I find most difficult to replace are those by small to midsize devs, which are exactly the ones most likely to be the primary contributors to a new platform early on. I don’t think this is particularly unusual, either. Plenty of people have absoutely no need for video streaming on their phone outside of maybe YouTube for example, which works well enough on the web. Microsoft’s not the best example here, because they had momentum with both devs and users but shot themselves in the foot repeatedly on both sides of the fence: warring internal factions reset Windows Mobile development multiple times consecutively and burned through dev goodwill and poor strategy on the consumer side killed things there. Mozilla’s foray into phones failed because they insisted on sticking to entry level devices which were both not interesting to most of the market and not powerful enough to handle a new unoptimized OS.

jolmg 1y ago

> The external monitor I think was capped to 1920x1080 (if connected to a 1440P display a huge chunk was just static) That happened to me with the PP, but I can reliably use a 1440P monitor with the PPP. Not sure if it's the phone, or the fact that I added a power cord to the phone while it was connected. I can't remember if I did that with the PP. EDIT: Scratch that. It's because I used the official dock with the PP, and for the PPP I used one I got on Amazon. The official dock is docked (:P) to 1080P.[1] I wonder how it happened that the de-facto standard here is for the protocol going over USB-C to be DisplayPort, but for the hardware connection to be HDMI, and so leading to docks needed to be spec'ed to the resolution you want instead of being passive. [1] https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pro-usb-c-docking-bar/ https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pro-usb-c-docking-bar/

zorgmonkey 1y ago
The answer is boring and annoying, they almost certainly want it to work with TVs and cheap monitors both of which commonly only have HDMI inputs. It has been my experience that you typically have to pay more for a USB-C dock with displayport outputs, even though they don't have the chip just cause of economies of scale.
ge96 1y ago
To be clear when I say 1440p I mean 3840x1440 which might be obvious I was using random USB-C to HDMI/usb that I bought on Amazon, I primarily used Mobian
- jolmg 1y ago
  I meant 2560×1440. Checking online, I didn't realize there were so many different 1440p resolutions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1440p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1440p Random adapters on Amazon specify 4K though, so I would've thought they'd work for you too.

gunalx 1y ago

you might habe an old enough rm account to have free base subscription.

ge96 1y ago

I bought a Pine Note, probably a mistake with how poor I am But maybe motivates me I'm already concerned since it runs a full OS, its battery will be shit compared to an RM2