4 ms·

How is everyone working shitty jobs not "society becoming shittier"? Seems pretty awful

furyofantares 1y ago
"Society" is more than just software developers. We are very well paid for very cushy work. It's not good for anyone's work to get worse, but it's not a huge hit to society if a well-paid cushy job gets less cushy. And presumably people buy our work because it's valuable to them. Multiplying that by 8 would be a pretty big benefit to society. I don't want my job to get less fun, but I would press that button without hesitation. It would be an incredible trade for society at large.
- codr7 1y ago
  If you think software development is cushy, I wonder what kind of software you're writing. Because there are different levels; getting something to work is not the same thing as writing maintainable, high quality software. I've seen plenty enough people try, really try, to get into software development; but they just can't do it.
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  My cushy software job has burned me out so badly that I am on medical leave with massive memory problems and a bit of concern about my heart So I mean... Yeah Is software more comfortable generally than many other lines of work? Yes probably Is it always soft and cushy? No, not at all. It is often high pressure and high stress
  - griffiths 1y ago
    What kind of massive memory problems? I might have this but didn't think to attribute it to burnout.
    - mrbombastic 1y ago
      Also asking for a friend…
      - bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Really sorry to hear that All I can suggest is see a doctor as soon as possible and talk to them about it
    - ModernMech 1y ago
      When I burned out I experienced skill regression and short term memory loss. Like, an inability to remember specific events of the day before, inability to perform skills I had done for decades like play an instrument. Took over a year to stabilize and return to normal.
      - bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Yes, this is extremely similar to my experience I cannot remember events, conversations, or details about important things. I have partially lost my ability to code, because I get partway through implementing a feature and forget what pieces I've done and which pieces still need to be done I can still write it, but the quality of my work has plummeted, which is part of why I'm off on leave now
        ModernMech 1y ago
        Hang in there, it gets better and the skills come back. From my github: 2,350 contributions in 2021 2,661 contributions in 2022 381 contributions in 2023 <--- burnout 794 contributions in 2024 <--- recovery 1,632 contributions in 2025 (so far) My recovery took about 18 months. It took time, and a lot of rest. I'd have to sleep like 12 hours a day sometimes.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Thank you for the kind encouragement I hope my recovery doesn't take that long, but if it does it does I would rather give myself the space and time to really get better, rather than simply rush back to work and burn out again
        cultofmetatron 1y ago
        was going through something similar. here's my anti burnout protocol thats kept me functional all the way to my current position as founder and CTO of a profitable startup. 1. 1 tablespoon of cold extracted cod liver oil EVERY MORNING 2. 30 min of running 3-4 times a week 3. 2-3 weight lifting sessions every week 4. regular walks. 5. cross train on different intellectually stimulating subjects. doing the same cognitive tasks over and over is like repetive motion on your muscles 6. regularly scheduled "fallow mind time." I set aside an 30 min to an hour everyday to just sit in a chair and let my mind wander. its not meditation. I jsut sit and let my mind drift to whatever it wants. 7. while it should be avoided, in the event that you have to crunch, RESPECT THE COOLDOWN. take downtime after. don't let your nontechnical leads talk you out of it. thinking hard for extended periods of time requires appropriate recovery. the human brain is a complex system and while we think of our mind as abstract and immaterial, it is in reality a whole lot of physical systems that grow, change and use resources the same way any other physical system in your body does. just like muscles need to recover after a workout to get stronger, so too does your brain after extended periods of deep thinking.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      Difficult to explain because it's inconsistent But I am struggling to remember things I did not used to struggle with Going to an event on a weekend with my wife and completely forgetting that we ran into a friend there. Not just "oh yeah I forgot we saw them", like feeling my wife is lying to me when she tells me we saw them. Texting them to ask and they agree we saw each other These are people I trust with my life so I believe they would not gaslight me, my own memory has just failed Many examples like this, just completely blacking out things. Not forgetting everything, but blacking out large pieces of my daily life. Even big things
  - politician 1y ago
    FWIW, I am not your doctor: Taking a daily antioxidant, glutathione, has helped me manage memory-related symptoms that appeared coincident with other burnout symptoms. Disclaimer: talk to your doctor. I don’t know if your doctor can tell you whether this is a good idea, but it might help in some countries with good medical systems.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      I might as well ask my doctor about it, thanks
  - furyofantares 1y ago
    I'm sorry for implying there can't be hardship (significant, even devastating) in this line of work. Thanks for posting about your experience.
- pempem 1y ago
  Well lets think about it. Software devs jobs getting less cushy is no biggie. We can afford to amp up the efficiency. Teachers jobs got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. Doctors jobs got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. Even waiters/ check-out staff, stockists jobs at restaurants, groceries and AMZ got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. at least not when you need to call someone for help. These things are not as disconnected as they seem. Businesses are in fact made up of people.
- pdntspa 1y ago
  Maybe everybody's job should be cushy instead. We were not put on this earth to toil away for a bunch of rich fucks
- advael 1y ago
  This places a lot of faith in the following assumptions: 1. Efficiency measures as written to benchmark this coupling with economic productivity overall 2. Monetary assessments of value in the context of businesses spending money corresponding with social value 3. The gains of economic productivity being distributed across society to any degree, or the effect of this disparity itself being negligible 4. The negative externalities of these processes scaling less quickly than whatever we're measuring in our productivity metric 5. Aforementioned externalities being able to scale to even a lesser degree in lockstep with productivity without crashing all of the above, if not causing even more catastrophic outcomes I have very little faith in any of these assumptions

"Society" is more than just software developers. We are very well paid for very cushy work. It's not good for anyone's work to get worse, but it's not a huge hit to society if a well-paid cushy job gets less cushy. And presumably people buy our work because it's valuable to them. Multiplying that by 8 would be a pretty big benefit to society. I don't want my job to get less fun, but I would press that button without hesitation. It would be an incredible trade for society at large.

codr7 1y ago
If you think software development is cushy, I wonder what kind of software you're writing. Because there are different levels; getting something to work is not the same thing as writing maintainable, high quality software. I've seen plenty enough people try, really try, to get into software development; but they just can't do it.
bluefirebrand 1y ago
My cushy software job has burned me out so badly that I am on medical leave with massive memory problems and a bit of concern about my heart So I mean... Yeah Is software more comfortable generally than many other lines of work? Yes probably Is it always soft and cushy? No, not at all. It is often high pressure and high stress
- griffiths 1y ago
  What kind of massive memory problems? I might have this but didn't think to attribute it to burnout.
  - mrbombastic 1y ago
    Also asking for a friend…
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      Really sorry to hear that All I can suggest is see a doctor as soon as possible and talk to them about it
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    When I burned out I experienced skill regression and short term memory loss. Like, an inability to remember specific events of the day before, inability to perform skills I had done for decades like play an instrument. Took over a year to stabilize and return to normal.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      Yes, this is extremely similar to my experience I cannot remember events, conversations, or details about important things. I have partially lost my ability to code, because I get partway through implementing a feature and forget what pieces I've done and which pieces still need to be done I can still write it, but the quality of my work has plummeted, which is part of why I'm off on leave now
      - ModernMech 1y ago
        Hang in there, it gets better and the skills come back. From my github: 2,350 contributions in 2021 2,661 contributions in 2022 381 contributions in 2023 <--- burnout 794 contributions in 2024 <--- recovery 1,632 contributions in 2025 (so far) My recovery took about 18 months. It took time, and a lot of rest. I'd have to sleep like 12 hours a day sometimes.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Thank you for the kind encouragement I hope my recovery doesn't take that long, but if it does it does I would rather give myself the space and time to really get better, rather than simply rush back to work and burn out again
      - cultofmetatron 1y ago
        was going through something similar. here's my anti burnout protocol thats kept me functional all the way to my current position as founder and CTO of a profitable startup. 1. 1 tablespoon of cold extracted cod liver oil EVERY MORNING 2. 30 min of running 3-4 times a week 3. 2-3 weight lifting sessions every week 4. regular walks. 5. cross train on different intellectually stimulating subjects. doing the same cognitive tasks over and over is like repetive motion on your muscles 6. regularly scheduled "fallow mind time." I set aside an 30 min to an hour everyday to just sit in a chair and let my mind wander. its not meditation. I jsut sit and let my mind drift to whatever it wants. 7. while it should be avoided, in the event that you have to crunch, RESPECT THE COOLDOWN. take downtime after. don't let your nontechnical leads talk you out of it. thinking hard for extended periods of time requires appropriate recovery. the human brain is a complex system and while we think of our mind as abstract and immaterial, it is in reality a whole lot of physical systems that grow, change and use resources the same way any other physical system in your body does. just like muscles need to recover after a workout to get stronger, so too does your brain after extended periods of deep thinking.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    Difficult to explain because it's inconsistent But I am struggling to remember things I did not used to struggle with Going to an event on a weekend with my wife and completely forgetting that we ran into a friend there. Not just "oh yeah I forgot we saw them", like feeling my wife is lying to me when she tells me we saw them. Texting them to ask and they agree we saw each other These are people I trust with my life so I believe they would not gaslight me, my own memory has just failed Many examples like this, just completely blacking out things. Not forgetting everything, but blacking out large pieces of my daily life. Even big things
- politician 1y ago
  FWIW, I am not your doctor: Taking a daily antioxidant, glutathione, has helped me manage memory-related symptoms that appeared coincident with other burnout symptoms. Disclaimer: talk to your doctor. I don’t know if your doctor can tell you whether this is a good idea, but it might help in some countries with good medical systems.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    I might as well ask my doctor about it, thanks
- furyofantares 1y ago
  I'm sorry for implying there can't be hardship (significant, even devastating) in this line of work. Thanks for posting about your experience.
pempem 1y ago
Well lets think about it. Software devs jobs getting less cushy is no biggie. We can afford to amp up the efficiency. Teachers jobs got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. Doctors jobs got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. Even waiters/ check-out staff, stockists jobs at restaurants, groceries and AMZ got "less cushy" -> not great for users/consumers or the ppl in those jobs. at least not when you need to call someone for help. These things are not as disconnected as they seem. Businesses are in fact made up of people.
pdntspa 1y ago
Maybe everybody's job should be cushy instead. We were not put on this earth to toil away for a bunch of rich fucks
advael 1y ago
This places a lot of faith in the following assumptions: 1. Efficiency measures as written to benchmark this coupling with economic productivity overall 2. Monetary assessments of value in the context of businesses spending money corresponding with social value 3. The gains of economic productivity being distributed across society to any degree, or the effect of this disparity itself being negligible 4. The negative externalities of these processes scaling less quickly than whatever we're measuring in our productivity metric 5. Aforementioned externalities being able to scale to even a lesser degree in lockstep with productivity without crashing all of the above, if not causing even more catastrophic outcomes I have very little faith in any of these assumptions