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>> It's one of those ideologies that looks good on paper, but falls apart, as soon as humans get added... Name an ideology where this doesn't happen.

by skeeter2020 1y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
True, dat…
renewiltord 1y ago
Constitutional democracies with a free market have had a long run so far. We shall see if they last.
- seangrogg 1y ago
  Curious how we're defining "democracy" and "free market" with this one. I wonder how countries with a pure democracy and an actually free market compare to the republic and regulated market we have in the US.
  - krapp 1y ago
    >I wonder how countries with a pure democracy and an actually free market compare to the republic and regulated market we have in the US. They don't exist.
  - renewiltord 1y ago
    The US is a constitutional democracy with a free market and I consider it successful. The definitions of these words can be the predominant use of these words in the English language. But if you want "constitutional democracy" here use this: https://civiced.org/lesson-plans/constitutional-democracy https://civiced.org/lesson-plans/constitutional-democracy And for free market here, use this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp People frequently misunderstand "constitutional democracy" as being substantially different from "republic" but that's usually an ESL error that can be fixed quickly.
    - idiotsecant 1y ago
      The vast majority of markets in the US are hardly free. Every single large company in the US is heavily government subsidized, market protectionism is rife, and regulatory capture and artificial moat-building is the norm. I think it's quite a stretch to day we have a free market. Maybe a 'free-er' market.
      - renewiltord 1y ago
        So be it. s/free/free-er/g in comments above if that will lead to convergence.
    - seangrogg 1y ago
      > The free market is an economic system based on supply and demand with little or no government control. Given the amount of government subsidy and regulation that exists in our markets I assume this, too, is a simply ESL error that can be fixed quickly?
    - latexr 1y ago
      > The US is a constitutional democracy with a free market and I consider it successful. Out of all the definitions you gave, I feel you left out the most important. How exactly are you defining “successful”? Considering the current state of the US, that one seems really important.
- idiotsecant 1y ago
  Yeah, someone should make one of those. Would be interesting to see how they compare to the current 'free market' 'democracies'.
  - tracker1 1y ago
    It'll wind up mired into something close to what we have now before long. "There atta be a law" and "Think of the children"... That said, I'm fairly pragmatic about it... I don't think you can have free markets with nations that heavily manipulate their markets, or significantly different quality of life goals or regulation. That said, I much prefer the free-er market systems and a constitutional republic over what the Quasi-Mauists seem to be pushing for.

>> It's one of those ideologies that looks good on paper, but falls apart, as soon as humans get added... Name an ideology where this doesn't happen.

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago

True, dat…

renewiltord 1y ago

Constitutional democracies with a free market have had a long run so far. We shall see if they last.

seangrogg 1y ago
Curious how we're defining "democracy" and "free market" with this one. I wonder how countries with a pure democracy and an actually free market compare to the republic and regulated market we have in the US.
- krapp 1y ago
  >I wonder how countries with a pure democracy and an actually free market compare to the republic and regulated market we have in the US. They don't exist.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  The US is a constitutional democracy with a free market and I consider it successful. The definitions of these words can be the predominant use of these words in the English language. But if you want "constitutional democracy" here use this: https://civiced.org/lesson-plans/constitutional-democracy https://civiced.org/lesson-plans/constitutional-democracy And for free market here, use this: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp People frequently misunderstand "constitutional democracy" as being substantially different from "republic" but that's usually an ESL error that can be fixed quickly.
  - idiotsecant 1y ago
    The vast majority of markets in the US are hardly free. Every single large company in the US is heavily government subsidized, market protectionism is rife, and regulatory capture and artificial moat-building is the norm. I think it's quite a stretch to day we have a free market. Maybe a 'free-er' market.
    - renewiltord 1y ago
      So be it. s/free/free-er/g in comments above if that will lead to convergence.
  - seangrogg 1y ago
    > The free market is an economic system based on supply and demand with little or no government control. Given the amount of government subsidy and regulation that exists in our markets I assume this, too, is a simply ESL error that can be fixed quickly?
  - latexr 1y ago
    > The US is a constitutional democracy with a free market and I consider it successful. Out of all the definitions you gave, I feel you left out the most important. How exactly are you defining “successful”? Considering the current state of the US, that one seems really important.
idiotsecant 1y ago
Yeah, someone should make one of those. Would be interesting to see how they compare to the current 'free market' 'democracies'.
- tracker1 1y ago
  It'll wind up mired into something close to what we have now before long. "There atta be a law" and "Think of the children"... That said, I'm fairly pragmatic about it... I don't think you can have free markets with nations that heavily manipulate their markets, or significantly different quality of life goals or regulation. That said, I much prefer the free-er market systems and a constitutional republic over what the Quasi-Mauists seem to be pushing for.