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it's really sad that just pointing out logical mistakes in someone's post gets you attacked, and ppl even accuse you of using AI like it's changing anything. we

by Otek 1y ago

it's really sad that just pointing out logical mistakes in someone's post gets you attacked, and ppl even accuse you of using AI like it's changing anything. we seriously need a proper public campaign to teach folks how to actually have real discussions again and to spot weak or irrelevant arguments this comment was AI generated or was it

j4hdufd8 1y ago
I am very happy if it made a few people think and/or get upset! My comment was totally AI generated, obviously. But as you lovingly touched on, it is irrelevant :)
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> sad that just pointing out logical mistakes in someone's post gets you attacked They didn’t. They mis-applied fallacies and in one case made one up. There was no substantial good-faith response to OP’s argument. Instead we got a shallow dismissal masked in the language (but not substance) of logic. It was fun to engage with! But not meaningful. The online-commenting equivalent of scrolling short-form videos and getting enraged or delighted or awe-struck for a picosecond.
- j4hdufd8 1y ago
  Can you elaborate how the other fallacies were mis-applied, please?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Can you elaborate how the other fallacies were mis-applied Sure. OP didn’t ever reject the developers’ arguments. He’s criticising their methods for activism. But, even if OP were attacking their arguments: OP doesn’t reject the developers’ methods (remember, their arguments are never contested) because of who is speaking, but how. To the extent it could be mistaken for ad hominem, it would be in tone policing, but that’s not what you said and it is not true because OP was citing Apple’s language, as evidenced by the quotes. Appeal to corporate omniscience is not a fallacy. (And OP doesn’t cite Google as evidence for their arguments, so no appeal to authority.) Circular reasoning doesn’t apply, even to your example, because complaints not mattering doesn’t cause Google to expect them. False dichotomy does not apply because OP never argued any dichotomy. The closest they came was hyperbolic language (“perfectly” and “completely and fully”). But that’s closer to modal scope than any dichotomy, possibly fallacy of necessity since it implies future limits. Arguments rarely require citing the formal or informal fallacy invoked. Instead, just respond to the argument. This is a great case of AI corrupting a discussion through derailment and false confidence.
    - j4hdufd8 1y ago
      > Arguments rarely require citing the formal or informal fallacy invoked. I disagree. If I suspect a fallacy I will cite it in your face. I also disagree with your analysis of the fallacies that the AI identified. I do not care to continue or have time to elaborate much though. Sorry, I just wanted to let you know I strongly disagree with how you are all hurt by perfectly fine AI-generated arguments. Btw can you all please tell me just one more time that the "appeal to corporate omniscience" isn't in the Wikipedia list of fallacies (which is just as arbitrary a source as a good LLM)? Tomato tomato, arguing semantics is soooo boring
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > If I suspect a fallacy I will cite it in your face And my cat will yell before his dinner time. We all have useless impulses. The question is if it accomplishes anything. Also, you didn’t suspect anything. A language model thought for you. Your role was in copying and pasting. Not understanding or commanding. > disagree with your analysis of the fallacies that the AI identified Sure. For what it’s worth, I ran your comment—over drinks—past a professor of philosophy who has published peer-reviewed research out of Columbia. He said I was too gentle. It’s gibberish of a form that wouldn’t make it past undergrad formal logic. We have no doubt you and plenty of others will regurgitate AI tripe with confidence. (This happened with television and organised religion in the past.) And I’ll admit I haven’t found, yet, how to profit off that common temptation other than investing in the companies that facilitate it. But I think I will, because folks who will double down on hallucinated constructs are commonplace. > can you all please tell me just one more time that the "appeal to corporate omniscience" isn't in the Wikipedia list of fallacies It’s in no philosophy text, either. Because it is, in itself, an appeal to authority. (Incorporation isn’t a logical primitive. It is a social construct.) > which is just as arbitrary a source as a good LLM To the extent a peer-reviewed paper is the same as a grad student, sure. (There is also rich irony in a corporate LLM hallucinating a fallacy about corporate omniscience. The stupid part, here, is the doubling down.)
        j4hdufd8 1y ago

by Otek 1y ago

j4hdufd8 1y ago

I am very happy if it made a few people think and/or get upset! My comment was totally AI generated, obviously. But as you lovingly touched on, it is irrelevant :)

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> sad that just pointing out logical mistakes in someone's post gets you attacked They didn’t. They mis-applied fallacies and in one case made one up. There was no substantial good-faith response to OP’s argument. Instead we got a shallow dismissal masked in the language (but not substance) of logic. It was fun to engage with! But not meaningful. The online-commenting equivalent of scrolling short-form videos and getting enraged or delighted or awe-struck for a picosecond.

j4hdufd8 1y ago
Can you elaborate how the other fallacies were mis-applied, please?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Can you elaborate how the other fallacies were mis-applied Sure. OP didn’t ever reject the developers’ arguments. He’s criticising their methods for activism. But, even if OP were attacking their arguments: OP doesn’t reject the developers’ methods (remember, their arguments are never contested) because of who is speaking, but how. To the extent it could be mistaken for ad hominem, it would be in tone policing, but that’s not what you said and it is not true because OP was citing Apple’s language, as evidenced by the quotes. Appeal to corporate omniscience is not a fallacy. (And OP doesn’t cite Google as evidence for their arguments, so no appeal to authority.) Circular reasoning doesn’t apply, even to your example, because complaints not mattering doesn’t cause Google to expect them. False dichotomy does not apply because OP never argued any dichotomy. The closest they came was hyperbolic language (“perfectly” and “completely and fully”). But that’s closer to modal scope than any dichotomy, possibly fallacy of necessity since it implies future limits. Arguments rarely require citing the formal or informal fallacy invoked. Instead, just respond to the argument. This is a great case of AI corrupting a discussion through derailment and false confidence.
  - j4hdufd8 1y ago
    > Arguments rarely require citing the formal or informal fallacy invoked. I disagree. If I suspect a fallacy I will cite it in your face. I also disagree with your analysis of the fallacies that the AI identified. I do not care to continue or have time to elaborate much though. Sorry, I just wanted to let you know I strongly disagree with how you are all hurt by perfectly fine AI-generated arguments. Btw can you all please tell me just one more time that the "appeal to corporate omniscience" isn't in the Wikipedia list of fallacies (which is just as arbitrary a source as a good LLM)? Tomato tomato, arguing semantics is soooo boring
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > If I suspect a fallacy I will cite it in your face And my cat will yell before his dinner time. We all have useless impulses. The question is if it accomplishes anything. Also, you didn’t suspect anything. A language model thought for you. Your role was in copying and pasting. Not understanding or commanding. > disagree with your analysis of the fallacies that the AI identified Sure. For what it’s worth, I ran your comment—over drinks—past a professor of philosophy who has published peer-reviewed research out of Columbia. He said I was too gentle. It’s gibberish of a form that wouldn’t make it past undergrad formal logic. We have no doubt you and plenty of others will regurgitate AI tripe with confidence. (This happened with television and organised religion in the past.) And I’ll admit I haven’t found, yet, how to profit off that common temptation other than investing in the companies that facilitate it. But I think I will, because folks who will double down on hallucinated constructs are commonplace. > can you all please tell me just one more time that the "appeal to corporate omniscience" isn't in the Wikipedia list of fallacies It’s in no philosophy text, either. Because it is, in itself, an appeal to authority. (Incorporation isn’t a logical primitive. It is a social construct.) > which is just as arbitrary a source as a good LLM To the extent a peer-reviewed paper is the same as a grad student, sure. (There is also rich irony in a corporate LLM hallucinating a fallacy about corporate omniscience. The stupid part, here, is the doubling down.)
      - j4hdufd8 1y ago