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Plywood, MDF and various other wood products are not a bad thing. They have superior mechanical properties and are actually better for the environment since you

Plywood, MDF and various other wood products are not a bad thing. They have superior mechanical properties and are actually better for the environment since you can use wood that otherwise won't yield large solid boards. Again you yourself said it, pure hardwood furniture is kind of a luxury. There is nothing wrong with "artisanal" except pretending it is something that actually sustains life. Artisanal is a perfectly fine luxury hobby. And yes, its the exact same chemical processes. How on earth would it not be? The fermentation of sugar is not a chemical process that suddenly changes based on weather its done at home or in a factory. The rest is just choice of grains, sugars and additives.

ericmay 1y ago
> And yes, its the exact same chemical processes. How on earth would it not be? Here's the ingredients list for Wonderbread from Wal-Mart.com Ingredients Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Nonfat Milk, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin. Active Ingredient Name Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Vinegar, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin. Here's my ingredients list for bread: salt, water, flour, yeast. Are you really going to sit here and argue that these are the same products and they are made in the same chemical process? This applies to other goods too, including manufactured goods. It's why Apple has historically had such great products. Sure the Windows PC specs were better, but the computer was always more than the sum of its parts and Apple continued to win out. > Artisanal is a perfectly fine luxury hobby. I think you are getting hung up on this word artisanal but it's not really relevant. "Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries. But these products don't have to be "artisanal", they can just be regular products that you buy at the store or a local market or something. Introducing tariffs to offset actions by other states that cause their products to be artificially cheap, keeping American entrepreneurs from starting their own soap [1] companies or whatever might raise prices in a sense, but overall it is better for the economy since there are less economic outflows, less gig workers and people on government handouts, and more entrepreneurial activities and product innovation. Software engineers already know this is true, which is why they always complain about outsourcing of jobs to cheaper countries. It's cheaper! That's all that matters, right? [1] I don't know that soap is the best commodity product to use, it's just an example.
- donkeybeer 1y ago
  Yes, bread is still bread, all those are still additives. They don't suddenly turn bread into not-bread. >"Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries. Correct, its no longer a sustainable business. How far do you want to go? Would you make nails by hand too? How about mining the steel for the nails? Artisanal today (not 400 years ago) is a luxury product born out of free time and our basic needs having already been met by industrial processes. The way to make it sustainable source of income is to do what the factories are doing, automate and scale up. And why this over focus on producers? What about consumers? Why kill consumers to artificially enrich producers? I care deeply about the middle and lower class. I don't want their expenses to suddenly rise several times because government turned what was a free choice and forced them into an artificially propped up expensive hobby market pretending to be a real market. But let us not get too lost from the question. Let us first decide what is the meaningful distinction to our purposes between these two breads in relation to the matter of tariffs.
  - ericmay 1y ago
    > Yes, bread is still bread, all those are still additives. Ok unfortunately I don’t think we really have much to discuss here if you think that. Our world views on products and economics are too different.
    - donkeybeer 1y ago
      They certainly are if you are so enamored by artificially making peoples lives worse. You still failed to explain btw precisely in what manner the differences between the production of bread at home and at a factory are relevant to tariffs?
    - donkeybeer 1y ago
      Why? Do you think alcohol for example becomes some Magicaniumsupernaturalum non-alcohol if its kept in an oak barrel for a few years vs being sold as is? Its still alcohol, the other chemicals are additions to it. If the other chemicals are gone, its still functional alcohol. If the alcohol is gone and the other chemicals remain, then its no longer a working alcohol.

ericmay 1y ago

> And yes, its the exact same chemical processes. How on earth would it not be? Here's the ingredients list for Wonderbread from Wal-Mart.com Ingredients Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Nonfat Milk, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin. Active Ingredient Name Unbleached Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Enriched Semolina (Durum Wheat, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Sugar, Yeast, Contains 2% or Less of Each of the Following: Soybean Oil, Wheat Gluten, Salt, Vinegar, Cultured Wheat Flour, Sunflower Lecithin, Enzymes, Ascorbic Acid, Soy Lecithin. Here's my ingredients list for bread: salt, water, flour, yeast. Are you really going to sit here and argue that these are the same products and they are made in the same chemical process? This applies to other goods too, including manufactured goods. It's why Apple has historically had such great products. Sure the Windows PC specs were better, but the computer was always more than the sum of its parts and Apple continued to win out. > Artisanal is a perfectly fine luxury hobby. I think you are getting hung up on this word artisanal but it's not really relevant. "Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries. But these products don't have to be "artisanal", they can just be regular products that you buy at the store or a local market or something. Introducing tariffs to offset actions by other states that cause their products to be artificially cheap, keeping American entrepreneurs from starting their own soap [1] companies or whatever might raise prices in a sense, but overall it is better for the economy since there are less economic outflows, less gig workers and people on government handouts, and more entrepreneurial activities and product innovation. Software engineers already know this is true, which is why they always complain about outsourcing of jobs to cheaper countries. It's cheaper! That's all that matters, right? [1] I don't know that soap is the best commodity product to use, it's just an example.

donkeybeer 1y ago
Yes, bread is still bread, all those are still additives. They don't suddenly turn bread into not-bread. >"Artisinal" products today are mostly marketed that way because in order for the product to compete on the market at a price the producer can afford to make it at and still live on, the product has to tell a story or have a clever marketing scheme or something like that because they can't achieve the volume of production that they need at a low enough cost to compete with mass-market supply chains and artificially cheap labor from other countries. Correct, its no longer a sustainable business. How far do you want to go? Would you make nails by hand too? How about mining the steel for the nails? Artisanal today (not 400 years ago) is a luxury product born out of free time and our basic needs having already been met by industrial processes. The way to make it sustainable source of income is to do what the factories are doing, automate and scale up. And why this over focus on producers? What about consumers? Why kill consumers to artificially enrich producers? I care deeply about the middle and lower class. I don't want their expenses to suddenly rise several times because government turned what was a free choice and forced them into an artificially propped up expensive hobby market pretending to be a real market. But let us not get too lost from the question. Let us first decide what is the meaningful distinction to our purposes between these two breads in relation to the matter of tariffs.
- ericmay 1y ago
  > Yes, bread is still bread, all those are still additives. Ok unfortunately I don’t think we really have much to discuss here if you think that. Our world views on products and economics are too different.
  - donkeybeer 1y ago
    They certainly are if you are so enamored by artificially making peoples lives worse. You still failed to explain btw precisely in what manner the differences between the production of bread at home and at a factory are relevant to tariffs?
  - donkeybeer 1y ago
    Why? Do you think alcohol for example becomes some Magicaniumsupernaturalum non-alcohol if its kept in an oak barrel for a few years vs being sold as is? Its still alcohol, the other chemicals are additions to it. If the other chemicals are gone, its still functional alcohol. If the alcohol is gone and the other chemicals remain, then its no longer a working alcohol.